The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question

[PurpleParrot319]

Got a Legends question for everyone. In the temple run for "The Crown of Queen Nzinga", the Red Jaguars tried taking the Benzibab path to the artifact in the upper left room (in this case, the Lightning Ball Room), but they had their run ended in the Dark Forest thanks to a temple spirit. The player that got caught, Renee, didn't attempt to bust through the wall to go to the Mine Shaft.

So the question is this. Do you guys think the wall connecting the Dark Forest and the Mine Shaft would've broken down had Renee tried it? I'm gonna be honest with you. I don't think it would've broken down. Why do you think the camera-right tree had a temple spirit in it? Obviously this tree had the key in it. If the wall was meant to be broken down, then the production crew most likely would've put the temple spirit in the camera-left tree, just like in "The Silver Horseshoe of Butch Cassidy". So with that being said, I truly believe that this Red Jaguars team would've been forced up into the Shrine of the Silver Monkey to get to the Crown. Heck, I actually think they would've been FORCED to enter the Mine Shaft from the Shrine. This would've been "The Imperial Purple Robe of Empress Theodora" all over again, except a slightly different order of rooms to enter: Forest, Shrine, Shaft, then Lightning.

What is everyone's take on this situation? It would've been interesting to see, but we never got to see it because you know, Renee....

[Purple Parrots Fan]

Yeah, I don't think the wall would have broken down either. The team would have been forced into the Shrine, and THEN the Lightning Ball Room. I don't think the production crew would force the contestants to zig zag just to get to the Crown. Either way, there was no excuse for this run to end in such a quick time. Renee should have been able to spot that half pendant.

[PurpleParrot319]

I agree about the half pendant. Even the sorry excuse for a Purple Parrot Claude was able to find his half pendant. That's sad.

The zig-zag path I had in mind would've been interesting, but you may be right. The production crew might not have been that mean to try it, but then again, anything was possible when it came to layouts.

[The Red Jaguars]

If the wall had broken down, then I am pretty sure that the team could've just got into the Mine Shaft elevator and rode it up to the Lightning Room. It pretty much had a similar layout to "Butch Cassidy", except Paula entered from the Heart Room rather from the bottom of the central shaft. But in that run, the Dark Forest guard was blocking the breakable wall. Same with "The Secret Map of the Bandit Queen", where the temple guard was blocking the breakable wall.

So why put the guard in the tree away from the wall? Its hard to tell if the wall was breakable or not, but I could see the situation where the wall was breakable though. But no excuse for this team losing. They had an easy layout either way and Renee should have found that half-pendant that Kirk even shouted at her after she passed it. It was just an all around inattentive team that pissed away an easy layout.

As for the zigzag path, I thought of this idea before too. It could've made an interesting path like "The Sacred Ring of Sultan Suleiman", but I don't see it happening.

Speaking of "Sultan Suleiman", does anyone think that the Purple Parrots should've entered the Shrine from the Storeroom?

[TempleFan322]

The Guard was in the stage right tree. When the wall is breakable, the Guard would be in the stage left tree.

The Wall to the Mineshaft would not break in this episode.

[The Red Jaguars]

I don't think the temple spirit being in the stage right tree always meant that the wall was locked. I mean we know that it worked in that case for "The Imperial Purple Robe of Empress Theodora" because the wall was locked AND the temple guard was in the stage right tree.

However, there are a handful of episodes where the stage right tree was avoidable due to the wall breaking down. In "The Jeweled Necklace of Montezuma", I am pretty sure Kelly encounters a guard in the stage right tree. While she didn't plow through the wall in that episode, I am sure it could've been broken down.

The stage right tree also captured Casey from "The Snow Cone of Mt. Kilimanjaro" too and since the Shrine was locked in that run, I am pretty sure the team would've had to plow through the wall in that run too. Unfortunately, the team was too stupid to make any more progress from the Dark Forest.

Back to "Queen Nzinga" though. It wouldn't be hard to believe that the wall couldn't have been broken down, that would've just made the run too simple. I mean look at the paths that teams like "The Silk Sash of Mulan" and "The Mush Pot Hat of Johnny Appleseed" had to take through the temple. Either way, Renee should've found that obvious half-pendant and this run wouldn't have ended the way it did.

[PurpleParrot4Life]

In "The Metal Beard of the Egyptian Queen", the camera-right tree held the temple spirit, taking TJ out of the temple. However, when Randy got to the room, there wasn't a key in either tree, forcing her to burst through the (breakable) wall to the Quicksand Bog. So a temple spirit in the camera-right tree does not mandate that the wall is locked.

[The Red Jaguars]

It happened also with Casey in "The Snow Cone of Mt. Kilimanjaro" where the stage right tree contained the temple guard. I am pretty sure the wall was breakable in that run too, but I am not watching that abomination again to determine if that is true or not. 

But back to "Queen Nzinga". I guess it shouldn't be too hard to believe that the wall was breakable in that run. I mean "Billy the Kid" featured an almost identical layout where Tony was allowed to get to the Shrine from the Mine Shaft. So maybe Renee was able to get to the Lightning Room from the Mine Shaft? Either way, it was her own stupid fault that this run ended the way it did. Just find the half-pendant that is plain in sight and they would've won! 

[PurpleParrot4Life]

Another thing to note about this temple run, is that it may not have even been necessary to go into the Swamp and Dark Forest in the first place. Right after Ben revealed the white laser in the Laser Light Room, it seems as though the door to Medusa's Lair opened. Look at the lighting on the uppermost rung of the ladder in the Laser Light Room between 2:11 and 2:08 on the temple run clock. There is a definite lighting shift, and the motion of the light is left-to-right, just as that door is supposed to open. (This also happens in The Golden Goblet of Attila the Hun, where they descended from Medusa's Lair to the Laser Light Room. At 1:47-:42, before the frontrunner even begins climbing down to the Laser Light Room, the same lighting transition can be seen on the uppermost rung of the ladder.)








Could this mean that there was another path leading from the Laser Light Room to Medusa's Lair and across the upper floor, thereby completely negating the last two temple guards? If so, then this could have been a solo victory, and Renee wouldn't have even had to enter the temple and cause... what happened...

[The Ancient Warrior]

There could've been a clear path from there, but I think what's more likely is if Medusa's Lair were a dead end.  Temple configurations were almost never freeform enough to give players two very divergent paths to choose from, but it's still possible, just unlikely.

The configuration including the Dark Forest/Mine Shaft passage being open didn't seem too short to me.  The producers had created even easier setups, so the only reason I'd guess that the wall wouldn't break down is because of the Dark Forest having a Temple Spirit at all when it seems like they shouldn't need to unlock any doors.  If Renee just had to bust through the wall, why not just put the third guard in the Mine Shaft?

For comparison, "The Silver Horseshoe of Butch Cassidy" did have a Temple Spirit but the wall still broke down, but I'm guessing that was just an early episode quirk, because the Temple Spirit went after Paula even though she was just trying to go through the wall.  It's not like later episodes where the Temple Spirit becomes more of a calculated risk than something inevitable.

My only argument against that is maybe setting up the Temple Spirit to catch a player who wasn't paying attention to the Dark Forest's multiple objectives.  Even in Season 3, an occasional player (Jared from "The Mystical Spellbook of the Imperial Wizard") still tried to look for the key when all they had to do was bust through the wall.

[The Red Jaguars]

There could've been a clear path from there, but I think what's more likely is if Medusa's Lair were a dead end.  Temple configurations were almost never freeform enough to give players two very divergent paths to choose from, but it's still possible, just unlikely.

The configuration including the Dark Forest/Mine Shaft passage being open didn't seem too short to me.  The producers had created even easier setups, so the only reason I'd guess that the wall wouldn't break down is because of the Dark Forest having a Temple Spirit at all when it seems like they shouldn't need to unlock any doors.  If Renee just had to bust through the wall, why not just put the third guard in the Mine Shaft?

One thing to note about most season two half-pendant temple runs were that the producers almost always banked on the team with the half-pendant. I mean "The Two-Cornered Hat of Napoleon" team run featured an almost identical temple guard layout during that run. Except in that run, one of the guards were avoidable in the Crypt. So taking this into account, I don't think Medusa's Lair was an alternate route either. Probably a useless detour or deadend like you mentioned.

But yeah, having the temple guard in the Mine Shaft would've made a more interesting layout. But the wall being breakable seems more likely now as it was rare for a team to be forced to encounter all three guards. So its possible that the Temple Spirit would've been an optional encounter so Renee might've been better off busting through the wall after all. Or found that obvious half-pendant too.

For comparison, "The Silver Horseshoe of Butch Cassidy" did have a Temple Spirit but the wall still broke down, but I'm guessing that was just an early episode quirk, because the Temple Spirit went after Paula even though she was just trying to go through the wall.  It's not like later episodes where the Temple Spirit becomes more of a calculated risk than something inevitable.

The Temple Spirit in "The Jeweled Necklace of Montezuma" also guarded the breakable wall when Kelly encountered it in her temple run. I am pretty sure it was like that for Joel in his temple run too, but it was only partial and not covering the wall entirely like it did for Paula and Kelly. But I guess they did to try and force the team to encounter a temple guard. I mean technically Paula shouldn't have encountered any temple guards at all since she wasn't trying to reach in the tree.

My only argument against that is maybe setting up the Temple Spirit to catch a player who wasn't paying attention to the Dark Forest's multiple objectives.  Even in Season 3, an occasional player (Jared from "The Mystical Spellbook of the Imperial Wizard") still tried to look for the key when all they had to do was bust through the wall.

I blame Kirk for Jared wasting his time in that room. He could've simply plowed through the wall, but Kirk kept telling him to look into the trees. Although I think Katie mentioned in her interview that Jared was not paying attention during the temple rundown. So that could've been a reason why he wasted time trying the Trees also.

[PurpleParrot4Life]

*Bump*

This discussion seems to have burnt out before a conclusion was reached, so I'd like to revive it and hopefully come to a consensus about the stone wall in the Dark Forest for the Nzinga run. Some people believe that the wall was not breakable because the temple spirit was in the otherwise avoidable camera-right tree. Other people believe that the wall was breakable because the path resembled several other runs where the wall was breakable.

I believe that the wall was breakable. To start, there were other runs that featured both a temple spirit in that tree and a breakable wall, such as "Metal Beard of the Egyptian Queen." Since that placement has happened in other episodes, it would not be out of the question for that placement to have happened again. The only times we are certain of where the wall did not break down were in the "Keys to the Alhambra" and "Imperial Purple Robe of Empress Theodora," both of which featured artifacts in the Mineshaft space, not the Lightning Room space. While it is impossible to say that only episodes with artifacts in the bottom corner had stiff walls, my guess is that the path and temple guard placement best lent itself to sending this team into the Mineshaft and up to the Lightning Room, similarly to the "Silver Horseshoe of Butch Cassidy."

I would also like to reiterate TRJ's point that in nearly every episode, at least one guard was avoidable during the run. If the path along the bottom floor was the only viable path (as opposed to a path across the upper floor via the opened door leading up to Medusa's Lair from the Laser Light Room that I pointed out in a prior post), then the only potentially avoidable guard would have been the one in the Dark Forest. However, if the door to Medusa's Lair did send the team across the top floor, then both the Swamp and Dark Forest guards would have been avoidable, and it could have been a solo win so Renee would not have had to have entered the temple in the first place. However, let's assume that the team needed to take the path along the bottom floor like they did. Under these conditions, I believe the wall was breakable so that the third guard would be potentially avoidable.

[The Viper]

I think that the wall was breakable. During the temple rundown, the Mine Shaft elevator is up in the Lightning Ball Room. This means they would've had to zig-zag to get the Crown had the wall been breakable and they chose/were forced to go through it. The Shrine-Forest passage might have been inactive, and the temple spirit might have been unnecessary to encounter due to this.

[PurpleParrot4Life]

I think that the wall was breakable. During the temple rundown, the Mine Shaft elevator is up in the Lightning Ball Room. This means they would've had to zig-zag to get the Crown had the wall been breakable and they chose/were forced to go through it. The Shrine-Forest passage might have been inactive, and the temple spirit might have been unnecessary to encounter due to this.

How are you able to tell that the elevator was in the Lightning Ball Room rather than in the Mineshaft?

[The Viper]

The triangle ropes are those of the elevator. (Sorry from my crappy cropping )