Author Topic: The Unused Door  (Read 1000 times)

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Offline NikoMetsPlus

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The Unused Door
« on: May 28, 2015, 07:22:16 PM »
Hello.

I was re-watching a lot of LOTHT episodes the other day, and was truly stumped as to why the right door leading from the Shrine to the Forest/Golden Doors never opened (well, except once, by mistake...).

It wasn't un-common for there to be multiple passageways to get from one room to the other. The Ledges and the Pit had two, the Swamp to the Golden Doors had two, and the Swamp up to the Green Door/Treasure Room had three ( we see those side doors open in a few episodes, and while I can't remember which episodes specifically, it told us that those doors were "active").

The only door that never opened in 119 episodes was that right Shrine/Golden Doors passage. Here is what we know:

1) There are three doors from the Golden Doors that, by just looking at an image, appear to go up. The one on the left was the one that would connect that space with the Shrine, the Center door lead to the back of the temple, and was used to hold temple guards in Season 1, and the right door, was, well, a passage that as we all know was never used.

2) That passage was originally intended to be used, as you can see it from the Shine, but it never opens after the artifact is acquired.

However upon review of the episodes, there was one early Season 1 production error in which that door does open, it was during The Keys to the Alhambra and while there isn't clear and convincing evidence, I'm about 90% it opened. Here is why. If you re-watch that episode, you will see that the moment the Temple Guard jumps out, all of the doors (with the exception of the rock wall) instantly open. Also notice how those fake doors that lead in the direction of the Swamp don't open, while the right Shrine door does. This proves that our "Unused Door" was a real passageway. My thought is that the moment the Temple Guard jumps out, a production error unlocks all the doors in that room. So when Lisa, the trail runner, attempts to put in the key for the ALREADY UNLOCKED doors, no sound effect plays, as if this step had already been done. If Lisa had been a smart runner, she would have at least made it up to the Shrine using the passageway you are supposed to use, and then we would have closure, as we would be able to see if the Shine door opened. But I'm almost positive they were both open by mistake. Of course the credits avoided the Shrine one this episode, would have provided us with the answer! Now we will never know...

Anyway, do you think this door opened during that episode, and, why was that passageway never used? I'm intrigued to hear your thoughts!

Offline The Red Jaguars

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Re: The Unused Door
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2015, 11:50:42 AM »
I actually don't think there were two doors from the Shrine leading to the Dark Forest area. There were two cabinets in the room, but I think the one on the left was the one that acted as a passageway. The other cabinet in the room is most likely empty and not an actual route. ;) You can sort of see a contestant open the other cabinet door in "Henry VIII's Great Seal" and it looks empty inside. But if there was another ladder there, it would seem completely pointless. It is like how there are three ladders in the Swamp and Jesters Court but only the middle one worked when they were active.

As for the "Alhambra" run, Lisa probably encountered a production error in the Tomb of the Ancient Kings. When Steve entered the room, the doors were all shut. But when Lisa entered the room, all of the doors were already open! As horrible of a player she was, she actually did try the key to the Shrine. For some reason though the door did not open even though it seems like the team was suppose to go up. I guess when the temple guard captured Steve it somehow messed up the door mechanism? But with 2:30+ minutes to herself, it's inexcusable for Lisa to not try a different route.

Offline NikoMetsPlus

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Re: The Unused Door
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2015, 10:52:53 AM »
I actually don't think there were two doors from the Shrine leading to the Dark Forest area. There were two cabinets in the room, but I think the one on the left was the one that acted as a passageway. The other cabinet in the room is most likely empty and not an actual route. ;) You can sort of see a contestant open the other cabinet door in "Henry VIII's Great Seal" and it looks empty inside. But if there was another ladder there, it would seem completely pointless. It is like how there are three ladders in the Swamp and Jesters Court but only the middle one worked when they were active.

As for the "Alhambra" run, Lisa probably encountered a production error in the Tomb of the Ancient Kings. When Steve entered the room, the doors were all shut. But when Lisa entered the room, all of the doors were already open! As horrible of a player she was, she actually did try the key to the Shrine. For some reason though the door did not open even though it seems like the team was suppose to go up. I guess when the temple guard captured Steve it somehow messed up the door mechanism? But with 2:30+ minutes to herself, it's inexcusable for Lisa to not try a different route.

I don't even think she needed to use the key. I believe some error happened after the frontrunner was taken out, opening all of the doors. I watched the Great Seal episode, and while, yes it does look dark, so does the "Active" cabinet. It's something we will never know, as Lisa never went up (like anyone else would.)

Also, weren't the side Jester's Court doors heading up to the King's Storeroom active? We see the girl in "The Bonnet of Dolly Madison" climb up the right one during the last seconds of her run, and then we see it open during the credits.

Either way, we will never know if that right Shrine cabinet was a "real" passage, all thanks to good old Lisa, the "Cool Customer". 

Offline The Red Jaguars

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Re: The Unused Door
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2015, 04:13:24 PM »
As much hate Lisa gets for her stupidity, she did try the door to the Shrine:




For some reason though, the door didn't seem to open. We didn't even hear any sound effects either when she tried the keypad. Which is why she got confused. If the Shrine door opened, I am sure she would've grabbed the Keys with plenty of time left and maybe pulled off a victory. But instead of trying other doors like the Observatory or Golden Idols, she ran around the temple aimlessly and moved so slow. But in her defense, she did try to go up. I think that the temple guard that captured Steve somehow messed up the door mechanism in the room. Which is why we see all the doors open. Either way, it is still a lost cause run. :oops:

And it is possible that there was another ladder in the other cabinet. But I always assumed that there was only one because at no point did it ever look like there was another passage. You don't even see a keypad in the back part of the room either. But then again, the temple had some useless doors and buttons that were hardly used. But did the other Jester's Court doors open for Ashlie during the Dolley Madison run? I remember her trying to climb up one of the ladders but gave up because Kirk kept yelling at her to move forward. It doesn't really show if it opened or not. But then again, those ladders were rarely used in Season 1 and only used at the end of Season 2.

Offline NikoMetsPlus

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Re: The Unused Door
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2015, 12:06:46 AM »
As much hate Lisa gets for her stupidity, she did try the door to the Shrine:




For some reason though, the door didn't seem to open. We didn't even hear any sound effects either when she tried the keypad. Which is why she got confused. If the Shrine door opened, I am sure she would've grabbed the Keys with plenty of time left and maybe pulled off a victory. But instead of trying other doors like the Observatory or Golden Idols, she ran around the temple aimlessly and moved so slow. But in her defense, she did try to go up. I think that the temple guard that captured Steve somehow messed up the door mechanism in the room. Which is why we see all the doors open. Either way, it is still a lost cause run. :oops:

And it is possible that there was another ladder in the other cabinet. But I always assumed that there was only one because at no point did it ever look like there was another passage. You don't even see a keypad in the back part of the room either. But then again, the temple had some useless doors and buttons that were hardly used. But did the other Jester's Court doors open for Ashlie during the Dolley Madison run? I remember her trying to climb up one of the ladders but gave up because Kirk kept yelling at her to move forward. It doesn't really show if it opened or not. But then again, those ladders were rarely used in Season 1 and only used at the end of Season 2.


Yeah. Your right, Lisa did try to open it up, but maybe she was confused as to why all the doors were open. I agree with you that the Temple Guard coming out triggered some sort of "unlock all" initiative. I guess we will never know if there was a ladder, as the only way of knowing would be to see if the right cabinet was open in the Shrine.

Also, Ed, from the King's Storeroom said on his Dolly Maddison review that the  Jesters Court door was in-fact open, thats why I added that in...

Good to think about, though

Offline The Red Jaguars

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Re: The Unused Door
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2015, 02:11:32 PM »
No, you're right about the other ladder doors being open during the "Dolley Madison" run. ;) I watched the run again and you can see it during the credits. Makes me wonder if they opened during the regular runs and not only when the contestant grabbed the artifact? For example, if the other ladder doors opened for Steven during the "Silk Sash" run?

It's pretty unfortunate the temple didn't use these ladders more though. In Season 1, the only time this passage was used was when Mitchell opened the Treasure Chest during the "Geronimo" run. Also, the doors from the Swamp were suppose to open during the "Dead Man's Hand" run.

Offline NikoMetsPlus

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Re: The Unused Door
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2015, 05:58:19 PM »
No, you're right about the other ladder doors being open during the "Dolley Madison" run. ;) I watched the run again and you can see it during the credits. Makes me wonder if they opened during the regular runs and not only when the contestant grabbed the artifact? For example, if the other ladder doors opened for Steven during the "Silk Sash" run?

It's pretty unfortunate the temple didn't use these ladders more though. In Season 1, the only time this passage was used was when Mitchell opened the Treasure Chest during the "Geronimo" run. Also, the doors from the Swamp were suppose to open during the "Dead Man's Hand" run.

Interesting. I would say yes, they did open for Steven, only because if you look at the right of the Jester's Court after the lights turn off, you can see a tint of natural light reflecting up from the King's Storeroom.

The problem with all of those passages in general is that it could only be used in certain layouts. For example, in Season 1, they would never have opened any passage leading down from the Golden Idols during the Spider's Lair layout, primarily because the webbing is so thin, that the producers wouldn't want a kid falling a whole floor, no matter how many packing peanuts you put in the lair. The Bamboo Forest wouldn't be dangerous per se, but it would be tricky as the Bamboo faces in the wrong direction. The Swamp & Python were perfect, only they were rarely (or never for the Python) used.

The Jester's Court fit the bill perfectly for all three doors in Season 2, but then, when the Ancient Warriors came in, they just eliminated all of those doors. (They didn't make many other changes to the Room Of the Ancient Warriors though, the Green temple guard door can be seen in select episodes, like in the Lion-Headed Bracelet of Chandragupta (when the Temple guard rotates around, you can see the old Temple Guard green door). I feel like they should have demolished the old room and push the Ancient Warriors back, so that the stairs could stay, it was sort of un-fair, like in the Bifocal Monocle run. It was almost like they were expecting to change the room back to a full sized room, so they kept the back, weird..

On a side note: Now that you bring up the Treasure Room, I'm pretty sure that the objective was not to find an actuator inside the chest, as Kirk kept on telling the kids to do. I believe that the act of opening the chest is the actuator, only because you can hear a cue once Mitchell opens it in the Geronimo run, and slightly in the Golden Cup of Belshazzar episode (it's very hard to hear due to the Temple Guard capture cue).

Offline The Red Jaguars

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Re: The Unused Door
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2015, 03:08:13 AM »
Quote
Interesting. I would say yes, they did open for Steven, only because if you look at the right of the Jester's Court after the lights turn off, you can see a tint of natural light reflecting up from the King's Storeroom.

The problem with all of those passages in general is that it could only be used in certain layouts. For example, in Season 1, they would never have opened any passage leading down from the Golden Idols during the Spider's Lair layout, primarily because the webbing is so thin, that the producers wouldn't want a kid falling a whole floor, no matter how many packing peanuts you put in the lair. The Bamboo Forest wouldn't be dangerous per se, but it would be tricky as the Bamboo faces in the wrong direction. The Swamp & Python were perfect, only they were rarely (or never for the Python) used.

It was actually possible that the Room of the Golden Idols could open downwards to the Spider's Lair during a temple run. If you watch "Trojan Horseshoe", you can see a temple guard in the Spider's Lair when Shawn leaves the temple. Since the Throne Room was locked for Lucretia, the only way they would be able to enter into that room was from the Golden Idols. I agree that the webbing was too thin though to use these as a passageway. Look at how much Billy from Lost Hammer had climb it. Too bad the other rooms never used these passages.

Quote
The Jester's Court fit the bill perfectly for all three doors in Season 2, but then, when the Ancient Warriors came in, they just eliminated all of those doors. (They didn't make many other changes to the Room Of the Ancient Warriors though, the Green temple guard door can be seen in select episodes, like in the Lion-Headed Bracelet of Chandragupta (when the Temple guard rotates around, you can see the old Temple Guard green door). I feel like they should have demolished the old room and push the Ancient Warriors back, so that the stairs could stay, it was sort of un-fair, like in the Bifocal Monocle run. It was almost like they were expecting to change the room back to a full sized room, so they kept the back, weird..

It was unfortunate the ladders were removed in Season 3 from the Jester's Court because they could've made some really cool layouts with them. But I guess the Room of the Ancient Warriors being so big that there was little room for a ladder. If they ever made a Season 4, I would've loved to see them come back. This is why the temple didn't allow two paths to the artifact in Season 3 because of what happened in the Bifocal Monocle run. Although that team had helluva more problems than just that dead end. :oops:

Quote
On a side note: Now that you bring up the Treasure Room, I'm pretty sure that the objective was not to find an actuator inside the chest, as Kirk kept on telling the kids to do. I believe that the act of opening the chest is the actuator, only because you can hear a cue once Mitchell opens it in the Geronimo run, and slightly in the Golden Cup of Belshazzar episode (it's very hard to hear due to the Temple Guard capture cue).

Kirk said that there were actuators to push during the Zenobia and Silver Saddle Horn run. But he was clearly wrong because Mitchell from Moccasins didn't have to push any actuators to open his chest. And Katherine from Belshazzar for the same reason. The Treasure Room was a useless room anyways. It lasted for 5 layouts and was only used once.  :oops:

Offline NikoMetsPlus

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Re: The Unused Door
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2015, 04:55:55 PM »

Quote

It was actually possible that the Room of the Golden Idols could open downwards to the Spider's Lair during a temple run. If you watch "Trojan Horseshoe", you can see a temple guard in the Spider's Lair when Shawn leaves the temple. Since the Throne Room was locked for Lucretia, the only way they would be able to enter into that room was from the Golden Idols. I agree that the webbing was too thin though to use these as a passageway. Look at how much Billy from Lost Hammer had climb it. Too bad the other rooms never used these passages.


Hmmm, interesting. Yes, there is a guard in the Spider's Lair during the Horseshoe run. 100%. Your probably right, I mean, the only other way they could have gotten into the Spider's Lair would be if she went down from the Heart Room into the Throne, and then into the lair. I still think that your right though, unless it was one of those guards that was only meant to be there if the runner made a clueless mistake, like the Temple Guard in the King's Storeroom during the Bifocal Monocle run, I bet he thought he had the day off!

The only reason I believe it would be hard for them to open that door down into the Spider's Lair was the thinness of the web and the lack of a horizontal web to climb down. (Picture of the lair attached.)

On a sperate note, Kirk's post-run reaction was horrible in the Trojan Horseshoe run, despite them winning, and even worse in the "Pendant" run following that. Plus the horrible commentary on the "Keys" run. Overall a very weak production day for Kirk....


Offline The Red Jaguars

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Re: The Unused Door
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2015, 02:02:13 AM »
The webbing in the Spider's Lair was indeed very difficult to climb. It was too thin and weak so the contestants really couldn't climb it at all. Billy from "Lost Hammer" is a perfect example of this. He struggled really bad to climb the webbing but didn't get anywhere though. Plus, the webbing was totally useless anyways. It was suppose to slow the players down, but instead it didn't give them any trouble because most of them just walked through the back of the room anyways.

And yeah, Kirk's hosting in Season 1 was pretty weak. I think that in even one of his interviews that he was ashamed of it too. Part of the reason was that this was his first game show hosting role so he had no guidance or experience at all. Another problem was that he had way too many duties in Season 1 that it was pretty overwhelming. Luckily, they gave Olmec and Dee Bradley Baker more duties in the later seasons. Although I didn't find Kirk's commentary to be bad in "Kamehameha" though. I do remember that run for all the Fogg-Ups by him. But I think he captured the tragic ending to the run perfectly in that episode. Too bad Robbie and Tina were furious. :P

Offline GreenMonkeys#1

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Re: The Unused Door
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2015, 11:57:06 AM »
I actually think there was ladder in the third door in the Dark Forest area. My guess is that sometime during Season 1 (probably Alhambra episode when it opened) that the door broke and the producers were like "Ah, fuck it, we already got a door that goes the same path."

As for the passage between the Swamp area & the Storeroom, it was the rarest passage ever. It would make sense for the producers to not use the door when the Spider's Lair was the room below because the web was a flimsy and someone could've gotten injured. The passage was only used like 6 times, and 5 of those were Season 2. The Room of Ancient Warriors was only there in Season 3 probably because no one used this passage and the produces just put the Warriors right over it.



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Offline NikoMetsPlus

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Re: The Unused Door
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2015, 09:36:15 PM »
I actually think there was ladder in the third door in the Dark Forest area. My guess is that sometime during Season 1 (probably Alhambra episode when it opened) that the door broke and the producers were like "Ah, fuck it, we already got a door that goes the same path."

As for the passage between the Swamp area & the Storeroom, it was the rarest passage ever. It would make sense for the producers to not use the door when the Spider's Lair was the room below because the web was a flimsy and someone could've gotten injured. The passage was only used like 6 times, and 5 of those were Season 2. The Room of Ancient Warriors was only there in Season 3 probably because no one used this passage and the produces just put the Warriors right over it.


I agree with most every point that you bring up. I still think that they should have put a passage from the Ancient Warriors to the Jester's Court, as it made some runs (like Bifocal Monocle) extremely hard.

There were multiple passageways in the Temple that were, well, meaningless, like the lower passageway from the Swamp to the Golden Doors area, especially when they had a door right next to it. I also didn't see the value of three doors leading up from the Jester's Court in Season 2, it just made the King's Storeroom cramped.

The only two door connection that made sense was the Ledges to the Pit, especially in late Season 2 and in Season 3, where the Upper Ledge could take you to the rope swing (it was also even more important in Season 3, when they moved the location of the Temple Guards to the Upper Ledge, unlike the bottom right in Seasons 1 & 2.)

Offline The Red Jaguars

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Re: The Unused Door
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2015, 01:45:41 AM »
I actually never thought of the other cabinet being an actual passageway to the golden doors room. It would've made some of the layouts interesting if there was one truly there. For example, they could've had one passageway unlocked while the other one was locked to "trick" the contestant. So the contestant would've had to try both doors to see if they truly can find an unlockable route to the top. But yeah, you're right about the temple having meaningless doors.

The two Swamp-Golden Doors come to mind. I mean it was so pointless that the producers blocked the lower doors off when the Jester's Court came around.

Likewise, the three ladders leading up to the Golden Idols/King's Storeroom was pointless. Even the main ladder in the middle that only worked in the temple was pointless too because it was very rare that it was used. Especially in Season 1 where it was only used once during the "Geronimo" run. Why didn't it work in runs like "Leonardo Da Vinci" and "Stone Marker"? Those teams would've had better runs if those ladders worked.

Like Niko mentioned, the only two passageways leading to the same that made sense were the two doors that connected to the Pit from the Ledges. Especially in Season 3 where the door you entered determined whether you could use the rope in the Pit of the Pendulum or not. But what was pointless about these doors is that they all had actuators next to them also in Season 1 and 2. They were entirely pointless because the contestants had no reason to press them or else they would be backtracking. :P I think John from "Golden Cricket Cage" is the only one to press the actuators for one of these doors. But that is because he was "special".  :afro:

Offline NikoMetsPlus

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Re: The Unused Door
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2015, 03:22:19 PM »
I actually never thought of the other cabinet being an actual passageway to the golden doors room. It would've made some of the layouts interesting if there was one truly there. For example, they could've had one passageway unlocked while the other one was locked to "trick" the contestant.

It would have made for some interesting layouts no doubt. I think GreenMonkeys#1 is probably right when he said that they scrapped the idea after the "Keys" run. Think about it, they did the same thing to the lower door leading from the Swamp to the Forest when the Jester's Court was introduced (like Stone Marker mentioned). In Season 3, that passageway was still there, it was behind that left block in the Jester's Court, (it can actually be seen hidden in a few episodes in Season 3). Someone watching only Season 3 would probably think that said door from the Jester's Court didn't exist. We just know it did from previous episodes.

Also, consider this point: You know that door to the right of the right tree in the Dark Forest? That was a "dummy" door. There was nothing behind that door. That was just there for decoration, and so it didn't look "empty". Obviously, that door didn't open in the "Keys" run, because there was nothing behind that door, heck, I would be surprised if that door actually opened to the wall behind it.

If the right Shrine- Golden Doors door was a "Dummy" door, then why did it have a mechanism to unlock? Production error or not, that door in the "Keys" run, along with the other Swamp and the active Shrine passage opened after the Temple Guard jumped out. Almost like that room was accidentally given the directive to "open all doors" . The only door that didn't unlock was the known dummy door that was closest to the front on the right (eventually on the right of the right tree during the "Dark Forest" days).

Think about it, why would you pay & install a mechanism to open and close a door, if it's fake, and then not install it for the other fake one? I think the answer has to be that they intended for it to be a real door, and scrapped it after it started to brake(around the Keys run). What are your thoughts?

Offline The Red Jaguars

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Re: The Unused Door
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2015, 11:52:47 PM »
My only problem was that if the other golden door in the back should've lead to the Shrine, why didn't it open in runs like "Map to the Lost Gold Mine" and "Galileo"? The main Shrine-Ancient Kings golden door opened when the contestants grabbed their artifacts, but the other golden door never opened. And these runs were taped before the "Alhambra" run. As for the "Alhambra" run, the temple guard might've messed up the door mechanism when he removed Steve from the temple. So when Lisa entered, the doors got screwed up somehow even after she tried the key on all of the doors. If you watch the "Sultan Saladin" run (taped before "Alhambra"), the golden doors in the back of the room were the same way when the temple guard captured Lea. And yes, there was a dummy golden door with a magnetic key paid that never opened. It was the first door on the right. You can see players like Jennifer from "Blue Pearl" trying it and no luck.