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Offline PurpleParrot4Life

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Some Thoughts about Temple Runs
« on: March 05, 2014, 08:11:27 PM »
It appears that there are generally strong feelings of love and hatred toward certain episodes here, and particularly about certain temple runs. Some of the most revered include Lucky Pillow of Annie Taylor, Lost Hornpipe of the Pirate Captain, and Discarded Seal of Ivan the Terrible. The most despised runs include Bifocal Monocle of One-Eyed Jack, Golden Cricket Cage of Khan, and Keys to the Alhambra. I could continue on with lists of overrated, forgettable, unfair, and frustrating runs, just to name a few. Please note that these lists are not exhaustive.

I'd like to offer some of my own thoughts about some of these runs, particularly where my thoughts deviate from what appears to be the "general consensus." I hope that this can be a non-hostile environment where we can have a healthy discussion and accept opinions, even if they differ from one another.

Offline The Red Jaguars

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Re: Some Thoughts about Temple Runs
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2014, 10:10:47 PM »
So what temple runs do you find to be overrated, PP4L? Just curious to see if your list is the same as my list.

Offline PurpleParrot4Life

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Re: Some Thoughts about Temple Runs
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2014, 11:14:32 PM »
Here are six runs, two per season, that I hold opinions of that differ from the "general consensus." I hope that these thoughts do not come across as rude, condescending, or dismissive of other opinions; that is NOT my intention. I hope that this can result in thoughtful conversation.


Keys to the Alhambra

This run was not particularly great, but I wouldn't say it's one of the worst of the show. Steve cleared his fifth room in just over 30 seconds, which is a pretty fantastic feat. Even though all of his objectives were "push an actuator," his speed is irrefutable. Lisa's performance in the temple was not stellar, but I would argue that she actually had some idea of what she was doing. She did try to use the Tomb of Ancient Kings key to open up the golden door leading to the Shrine of the Silver Monkey, but the door was already de-magnetized from when the temple guard took Steve from the temple. So although she tried the key, the door was already "opened." And not only was that door open; the temple guard door and the far-right door were cracked open too. This caused some confusion. Lisa did make an effort to go up to the Heart Room and then back toward the Keys to the Alhambra, but the Room of the Golden Idols was locked. She probably would have been granted access up to the Observatory, but who is to say that that route would have allowed her into the Golden Idols either? I believe that she would have been forced back into the Pit anyways, only to have to use the Tomb of Ancient Kings/Shrine ladder to continue on. Lisa was by far not the only Season 1 contestant to be turned around or blocked by malfunctioning doors, so I don't think it should be held against her any more than any other contestant. Overall, I don't particularly enjoy this run, but I would not call it one of the worst runs (and definitely not the worst run) of the show.



Moccasins of Geronimo

A lot of conversations have led to the idea that Mitchell was a "lucky" contestant. He may have walked through the temple, but the Season 1 temple was easy enough where that was permissible without being an absolute detriment to the team. Additionally, he was one of the few Season 1 contestants who was able to traverse the temple (with switching floors multiple times, nonetheless) without once getting turned around. Regardless of whether he intentionally opened the Treasure Room or it happened to open by chance, I think that his ability to continue on without hesitation is something that points to the fact that he was a good contestant. Overall, I think that Mitchell is a better contestant than many people give him credit for.


Applewood Amulet of Emiliano Zapata

This run tends to receive a lot of high marks, but I don't find it to be one of the best wins of the show. Robert and Olivia-Emma were a good team, but I don't think that their performance warrants as much praise as it seems to get. Together, the team cleared five rooms en route to the Applewood Amulet, the same number of rooms as the Ivory Hunting Horn and Jeweled Scabbard teams. Ivory Hunting Horn was a solo run, so the team didn't have to use time to have the second runner retrace the frontrunner's path, but even so, Yakerra cleared some of the most time-consuming rooms to score a very quick win. The Jeweled Scabbard team had to clear the difficult central shaft to reach their artifact and did so with 30 seconds to spare. Lacey and Asher were pretty average-paced and found their half-pendant. So why am I mentioning these two runs in relation to Applewood Amulet of Emiliano Zapata? Applewood Amulet is often held in higher regard, but when I look at the details of this run, I find that Robert and Olivia-Emma faced rooms of the same difficulty as the other two runs and kept roughly the same pace as the other two runs, but they did NOT find their half-pendant (which could have proven detrimental to their run) and escaped with 0:01 left on the clock. While the "nail biter" finish may elicit more excitement, the overall quality of the content of the run was worse in that the team did not face any more obstacles than the other teams mentioned, yet used up more time in the temple and failed to find the half-pendant. If Robert and Olivia-Emma had been given any other path to the Applewood Amulet (whether having to enter the Throne Room like in Levitating Dog Leash of Nostradamus or having to head down into the Mineshaft like in Mush Pot Hat of Johnny Appleseed), they would have failed to score a win. It was only because the team was given a very generous, straight-forward path to the artifact that they were able to succeed. Overall, I find this to be a decent win, but I would not go so far as to give it as much praise as it tends to receive.


Golden Pepperoni of Catherine de Medici

Simply put: Aqila was not a horrible contestant. She may have passed up the Pepperoni in the last seconds of the run, but aside from that she was a fine player. She followed up on Chris' path well and cleared the King's Storeroom and Shrine of the Silver Monkey in decent time (once she got passed being dazed by her temple guard encounter). If she had grabbed the Pepperoni in the final few seconds, most people would probably find this episode pretty forgettable, but Aqila would not receive any bit of a "bad wrap."


Dried Apple Half of William Tell

I don't find this run to be particularly special, but Brett and Lauren faced arguably the most treacherous path to ever be featured on the show. The only door into the Pit of the Pendulum was through the bottom door from the Ledges, and from there, the team was forced to climb to the King's Storeroom, go back down the central shaft, and then loop back around the whole inner temple. Travis and Elisa (Discarded Seal of Ivan the Terrible) were able to bypass the Ledges and the Secret Password in their run, and Keith and Rachel (Missing Portrait of Hans Holbein) were able to take the top door from the Ledges to the Pit, so their paths were ever-so-slightly more bearable. While Brett and Lauren did not make it that far into the temple, the fact that they were forced to make that huge climb in the Pit, go down the central shaft, and then traverse the whole inner temple makes me feel that they had the most difficult temple route in the show's history.


Lily-Crested Crown of Clovis I

I would argue that Katie was one of the least successful Season 3 frontrunners. She reached her sixth room with only 1:00 on the clock. Katie spent a very long time in the Chamber of the Sacred Markers. Not quite as long as Veronica (Bifocal Monocle of One-Eyed Jack) in the Pit of the Pendulum or Jason (Smashed Printing Plate of Frederick Douglass) in the Ancient Warriors, but a very substantial amount of time. The thing that irks me most about this fact is that no other contestant had any difficulty completing the Chamber of the Sacred Markers. At least Noelle had trouble knocking over the column and other contestants had some trouble getting out of the Pit of the Pendulum, and there were a number of times where a contestant passed by a headdress or lost time in the Ancient Warriors (Much-Heralded Helmet of Sir Gawain and Comet-Embroidered Battle Flag of William the Conqueror are the first two to come to mind, but they are by no means the only ones). Katie, on the other hand, was the sole player to struggle in the Chamber of the Sacred Markers. So why do the other contestants who spent a long time completing single rooms take so much heat, while she is let off easy? Overall, I am not a fan of the Lily-Crested Crown of Clovis I run.

Offline Purple Parrots Fan

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Re: Some Thoughts about Temple Runs
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2014, 11:20:30 PM »
I definitely agree about Aqila. She is far from the horrible contestant she was made out to be. Was she too slow? Yeah. Did she pass up the artifact the last second? Yeah. But besides that, she wasn't a bad player at all, even the very first time I watched the run. She handled the Jester's Court with no problem, and she assembled the monkey in a respectable manner. Plus, at least she found her half pendant, something players like Renee and Christina couldn't say. I think people just like to pick on Aqila for one little mistake she made.

Also agree about Katie from Clovis the First. The Chamber might be a hard room, but spending over a minute looking for one marker is inexcusable. Though I don't think anyone here ever gave Katie an easy time? If they did, I don't really remember. It was a pretty forgettable run anyways.

Offline The Red Jaguars

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Re: Some Thoughts about Temple Runs
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2014, 11:32:31 PM »
My thoughts:

Alhambra: I think it deserves the reputation it gets for the most part. Steven was a really fast player and none of the criticism I give to this run pertains to him. But Lisa was a lost cause in the temple. With 2:30 to herself, I would expect she makes some kind of progress. In her defense though, she did try to go up into the Shrine. So its not like she didn't know that a path upwards existed. Even with this potential production error, she should've tried a different route. Katherine and Sean from Belshazzar had an even worst production error and they still took a different path. Although I think this run sort of gets a bad reputation too for the way Lisa and Steve went to the temple.

Geronimo: If it wasn't for all the love that this run gets, it wouldn't be so bad. But I just can't stand when it is labeled the best solo run of all time. The Treasure Chest opening for Mitchell was pretty generous and lucky when most kids never had the luxury of it. Plus, walking through the temple and finishing with more than a minute left is not impressive in my books. He lost me when he started assembling the Silver Monkey with the Moccasins. I can see why some people like this run, but it never flew under my radar.

Emiliano Zapata: I love this run a lot, but I can see why some people don't think highly of it. That is okay too, because their layout was really generous. But I thought the down to the wire ending and Olivia-Emma's strong temple exit made this run enjoyable. I don't mind if people have different opinions about this one. Although I do want to point out that Sforza does get a lot of praise. ;) It has appeared in a lot of people's top episode list and it is even some users favorite episode. I honestly have no problem with Sforza at all, but the win was too generous.

Golden Pepperoni: I definitely agree with you there. I actually like this run and the ending is very memorable. Aqila was not a bad player at all and she completed her rooms just as fast as most Season 2 contestants. The ending was the only real bad part, but if she had 2 more seconds, then we wouldn't complain about her passing the Pepperoni. I have nothing wrong about this temple run aside from the last 3 seconds of it. If it wasn't for the ending, then this run would probably be forgettable like Blackfeet Chief.

William Tell: Yeah, their layout was the toughest on the show. Even tougher than Discarded Seal. :shock: Honestly though, Brett never bothered me in this run. It was all on Lauren. Lauren's mouth was highly annoying and her lack of progress as a second runner was really pathetic. Look what Matthew from Belle Boyd did with his minute left? She could've made it to the Dark Forest at least if she hauled ass. I can't really stand this temple run, and it is because of Lauren.

Lily-Crested Crown: Wait, doesn't everyone criticize Katie for spending over a minute in the Chamber? That is all I see when this episode is brought up. I can't stand this run at all. It was exactly like Gwalior's layout, but these two sucked more. I guess no one talks about this episode though because it is so forgettable.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 11:34:05 PM by The Red Jaguars »

Offline Purple Parrots Fan

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Re: Some Thoughts about Temple Runs
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2014, 11:41:18 PM »
I also don't like Geronimo. I think people just like to call it a great win because of all the floor switching Mitchell did. And I also think he got lucky with the treasure chest. If you see a big chest in the middle of a room, your first instinct is to open up. If I remember correctly, didn't Jennifer from Buddha also try to open up the chest? That right there goes back to my point about opening up a treasure chest out of instinct. And Mitchell just happened to be lucky that the treasure chest opened that day.

And I'm gonna have to disagree about Applewood Amulet. I feel like it deserves all the love that it gets. Olivia Emma was a very strong player, and I loved the nailbiter ending the temple run had. I find it much more exciting than say.... Dr. Livingstone, Cleopatra, Geronimo, etc. Olivia Emma is just a player I can never hate, no matter how many times I see the run. And like TRJ said, Sforza was a rather easy layout too, and gets praised quite a bit too.

Offline The Red Jaguars

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Re: Some Thoughts about Temple Runs
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2014, 11:46:53 PM »
I always talk about how certain temple runs are overrated. Why not talk about the underrated temple runs instead? Tell me guys what you think:

King Tut's Cobra Staff - I think most of the criticism this run gets is from Eusinia's detours and hesitations. But this temple run was actually really interesting for how David and Eusinia were "polar opposites" of each other. Eusinia was fast and clueless, while David was slow but smart. So they pretty much cancelled each other out. Plus, the Purple Parrots reached the artifact too despite a long path.

The Electrified Key of Benjamin Franklin - I actually find this run pretty exciting. Sure it was fun and Peter and Michelle really should've won. But Peter and Michelle were also fast and made this temple run pretty exciting to watch. And they still came close to a bottom of the central shaft run artifact too. I can see why it receives criticism, but the team performances makes it a little enjoyable.

The Comet-Embroidered Battle Flag of William the Conqueror - Just like Electrified Key, Jonathan and Olivia made some mistakes that cost them the win. But I always found this temple run to be exciting. Jonathan moved fast in each of his rooms and despite his hesitation in the Room of the Ancient Warriors they still reach the Battle Flag. It might be my favorite failed escape run from Season 3 after Queen Boadicea.

Offline PurpleParrot4Life

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Re: Some Thoughts about Temple Runs
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2014, 12:30:36 AM »
In response to Keys to the Alhambra:

Well, Lisa tried the door leading to the Shrine, and after that didn't work, she tried a different path via the Heart Room. Unfortunately she got turned around when the Golden Idols didn't open but the Pit did. Although she never entered the Observatory, I strongly believe she would have only been allowed back into the Pit and Heart Room (similarly to many other Season 1 runs and Golden Stallion of Ali Baba in Season 2). So while I agree that it is frustrating that Lisa did not make any "progress" in her long stay in the temple, I think it is forgivable to some extent and therefore cannot be called the flat-out worst run of the show's history.


In response to Applewood Amulet:

If I recall correctly, there have been several instances where Ivory Hunting Horn and Jeweled Scabbard have been considered "generous" or "easy" layouts. Both of these paths, like Applewood Amulet, only had the players enter 5 rooms en route to the artifact. For Ivory Hunting Horn, those rooms were the Crypt, Pit of the Pendulum, Tomb of the Headless Kings, Jesters' Court, and Dark Forest. The Tomb of the Headless Kings was probably the most time-consuming room of any season, and the Jesters' Court was often a pretty time-consuming room. For Jeweled Scabbard, the rooms entered were the Crypt, Pit of the Pendulum, Tomb of the Headless Kings, Chamber of the Sacred Markers, and the King's Storeroom. All three of the inner temple rooms featured long objectives. Applewood Amulet's path consisted of the Ledges, Pit, Medusa's Lair (2 snakes), King's Storeroom, and Shrine of the Silver Monkey. While the Shrine was a very time-consuming room, all of the other rooms were slightly easier or less time-consuming than their Season 3 counterparts. If this is truly the case, then we would expect for Robert and Olivia-Emma to have exited the temple with a substantial amount of time left on the clock, not just 0:01. In this case, how would Robert and Olivia-Emma be a "stronger" or "better" team? How could Jeweled Scabbard and Ivory Hunting Horn be considered "more generous" or "easier" than Applewood Amulet, when Applewood Amulet was a longer run with a less intense layout?


In response to Lily-Crested Crown of Clovis I:

I simply think it is a bit unfair that Lily-Crested Crown is treated as a forgettable episode, while other runs to feature "long-room" contestants (such as Veronica in the Pit, Jason in the Ancient Warriors, and Tony in Medusa's Lair) are strongly looked down upon. Why is there a discrepancy? In my opinion, if runs share qualities or attributes, they should (theoretically) be viewed or thought of similarly.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 12:50:28 AM by PurpleParrot4Life »

Offline The Red Jaguars

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Re: Some Thoughts about Temple Runs
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2014, 12:10:38 PM »
I don't think people like the Emiliano Zapata win for the layout. I think most people like it for the down to the wire ending. I thought Olivia-Emma and Robert were solid players. Olivia-Emma's temple exit was solid too even though she had much less time than Ron, Jason (Icarus), and Kimberly. She still pulled the win off. And the one second win made the ending very memorable. Olivia-Emma and Robert probably would've lost with the Mush Pot Hat or Levitating Dog Leash layout maybe, but it would still be a close call. I think most people realize that this layout was easy, even though it used some of the hardest rooms of that layout. ;)

And trust me, Sforza gets A LOT of praise on this forum.  ;)  Maybe not so much now, but there are a lot of people that love this episode. You can go into some of the old members signatures and see that episode listed there as one of their favorites. And their layout was pretty tough to with the whole central shaft. But the reason nobody praises Sforza and Roland as much is probably because the endings in those runs weren't as close as Zapata's ending. And Roland was way too easy for Season 3 standards. Yakerra honestly should've beaten the Shaka Zulu record. Long story short though, people love the Zapata win mostly for the close ending and one second win. Galileo had an easy layout too, but it is loved for the close ending.  :mrsilver:  I like Sforza too, but it just has never grabbed me like Galileo or Emiliano Zapata.

As for Lily-Crested Crown, I think the episode is so forgettable that everyone overlooks Katie's performance. People talk about Stone Head and Bifocal Monocle a lot because those were more eventful episodes. It has always been like that. Even back then, no one ever talked about Lily-Crested Crown. But I think Katie deserves to be maligned just as bad as Veronica and Tony. The Chamber was not that hard where you had to spend over a minute in it. At least the four snakes head Medusa was a little forgivable where they even had to dumb down the objective.

Offline Purple Parrots Fan

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Re: Some Thoughts about Temple Runs
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2014, 04:19:28 PM »
Anyone else think Upside Down Compass gets too much of a bad rap? Everyone thinks this is a terrible temple run (like, Bifocal Monocle, Xerxes level bad), all because Sherra and Derek didn't move that fast and had a peculiar temple design. Yes Sherra moved pretty slow in the temple. But that layout was hard. I really don't see how her entry into the Tomb was considered a "detour" or (my personal favorite) a "direct path." The Pit/Chamber door, and any door in the Chamber for that matter, didn't open until AFTER Sherra completed the objective. Derek was the one who missed the Pit/Chamber door. But even if Sherra and Derek had access to those said rooms, the results still would've been the same. And yes Derek dropped the monkey over the edge just before time ran out. But time was running out, and it was poor editing. So it's not like we literally saw Derek drop one of the monkey pieces. Henry Hudson is by no means an exciting episode. But it's not as terrible as people make it out to be. Sherra and Derek were extremely strong pre temple, and did make it pretty far with the layout they had. I think the hate they get is way too undeserved.

Offline PurpleParrot4Life

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Re: Some Thoughts about Temple Runs
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2014, 04:36:57 PM »
Anyone else think Upside Down Compass gets too much of a bad rap? Everyone thinks this is a terrible temple run (like, Bifocal Monocle, Xerxes level bad), all because Sherra and Derek didn't move that fast and had a peculiar temple design. Yes Sherra moved pretty slow in the temple. But that layout was hard. I really don't see how her entry into the Tomb was considered a "detour" or (my personal favorite) a "direct path." The Pit/Chamber door, and any door in the Chamber for that matter, didn't open until AFTER Sherra completed the objective. Derek was the one who missed the Pit/Chamber door. But even if Sherra and Derek had access to those said rooms, the results still would've been the same. And yes Derek dropped the monkey over the edge just before time ran out. But time was running out, and it was poor editing. So it's not like we literally saw Derek drop one of the monkey pieces. Henry Hudson is by no means an exciting episode. But it's not as terrible as people make it out to be. Sherra and Derek were extremely strong pre temple, and did make it pretty far with the layout they had. I think the hate they get is way too undeserved.

Derek and Sherra did not have much of a choice in how they traversed through the temple. The Ledges was the only way into the Pit, and only the Tomb of the Headless Kings opened from the Pit. All of the doors leading out of the Chamber of the Sacred Markers opened upon completion of that room, and the clustered placement of temple guards was very unusual for Season 3. The final few seconds' editing was a bit awkward, and Derek still dropped the piece of the statue at the end (not that it made a difference in how the run went). I wouldn't say that Upside-Down Compass of Henry Hudson was terribly exciting, but there were a few quirky aspects about the run. However, if Derek and Sherra had kept a faster pace through the temple, it would have made for a better run. I still would not consider it to be a bad run as it is.

Offline The Red Jaguars

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Re: Some Thoughts about Temple Runs
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2014, 12:48:01 AM »
Yeah, Henry Hudson is not a bad temple run in anyway. Sherra and Derek were just kind of on the slow side, that was pretty much their only flaw. Their layout was pretty long and difficult too. This run probably got all the hate because people like outer space kept going around and calling Sherra a bad player for taking the direct path. Plus, I don't see how people can hold the Silver Monkey torso falling against Derek either. He only had 2 seconds to himself, so it was obvious he was rushing to get it together for a last second completion. It wasn't like Kelly from Montezuma who did not know how to handle more than one piece at a time. He probably wouldn't have done if he had more time.

And between Queen Boadicea and Empress Eugenie, what run do you guys think was better? I love the Boadicea run, but I can't lie though and I like Empress Eugenie a little better. Even though Nate and Lissy were probably the better team, the Eugenie run was more memorable and exciting. The temple guard encounters, Janeen's hesitance, Jay's screaming, and the Jester's Court production error make this run really memorable. Even though this team should've won more than the Boadicea one.

Offline Purple Parrots Fan

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Re: Some Thoughts about Temple Runs
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2014, 12:50:10 AM »
Honestly, I find Queen Boadicea seriously, seriously overrated. Yes Nate was a great player, but Lissy was just too slow. Besides Nate's fast speed, this run was just plain boring. And the more love it gets, the more and more I dislike it honestly. No offense. =/ I like Good Luck Watch better, though Janeen wasn't a prize herself.

Offline The Red Jaguars

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Re: Some Thoughts about Temple Runs
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2014, 01:05:00 AM »
I use to feel the exact same way about Red Sash. I thought Brandy and Quentin were way to hesitant in the temple. Over time though, I let them slide because that layout was very tough like Hans Holbein and Robert the Bruce. But yeah, Lissy is the reason why her team did not win. You should not be completing your third room with a minute going by. I like Empress Eugenie a little more also. Janeen's temple guards were hilarious and Jay knew that the temple was not the time to screw around. :lol:

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Re: Some Thoughts about Temple Runs
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2014, 01:14:22 AM »
I mean, I know people say "Well, she was frazzled by the temple guards," but that's no excuse either. I realize she had a Season 3 Pit to deal with, but like you said, there's no reason for you to be completing your third room with just barely 2 minutes on the clock. And yeah, Good Luck Watch very pretty memorable for the temple guards Janeen ran into, and for Jay's overall speed. :lol: I like Red Sash too, but even that run isn't that exciting.