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Primary blame for "The Red Sash of Tokugawa Ieyasu" loss?

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Author Topic: Who do you primarily blame for "The Red Sash of Tokugawa Ieyasu" loss?  (Read 1431 times)

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Offline PurpleParrot319

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Re: Who do you primarily blame more for the "William the Conqueror" loss?
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2013, 01:28:08 PM »
As for Jonathan, I am pretty sure Kirk told him that the door to the Chamber of the Sacred Markers was open after he tried the first armor. I am not sure why he missed it though. It seemed like some contestants like to try all three armors even if the first one opened the next door. So he could've saved himself 10 seconds if e didn't do it.

Also remember, though, that Kirk thought Jonathan was going to go up to the King's Storeroom from the Ancient Warriors. He didn't even realize that the door that opened allowed Jonathan to go straight into the Chamber of the Sacred Markers.

The same mistake was made by Kirk in the Apanuugpak run. It was probably hard for Kirk to see from his angle which door opened.



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Offline GreenMonkeys#1

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Re: Who do you primarily blame more for the "William the Conqueror" loss?
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2013, 06:48:07 PM »
As for Jonathan, I am pretty sure Kirk told him that the door to the Chamber of the Sacred Markers was open after he tried the first armor. I am not sure why he missed it though. It seemed like some contestants like to try all three armors even if the first one opened the next door. So he could've saved himself 10 seconds if e didn't do it.

Also remember, though, that Kirk thought Jonathan was going to go up to the King's Storeroom from the Ancient Warriors. He didn't even realize that the door that opened allowed Jonathan to go straight into the Chamber of the Sacred Markers.

But if he was heading to the King's Storeroom, Kirk would've seen them up the stairs. It probably was just a Fogg Up.

Jonathan deserves the blame here for what happened in the Room of the Ancient Warriors.

The same mistake was made by Kirk in the Apanuugpak run. It was probably hard for Kirk to see from his angle which door opened.



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Offline PurpleParrot4Life

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Re: Who do you primarily blame more for the "William the Conqueror" loss?
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2013, 08:10:43 PM »
As for Jonathan, I am pretty sure Kirk told him that the door to the Chamber of the Sacred Markers was open after he tried the first armor. I am not sure why he missed it though. It seemed like some contestants like to try all three armors even if the first one opened the next door. So he could've saved himself 10 seconds if e didn't do it.

Also remember, though, that Kirk thought Jonathan was going to go up to the King's Storeroom from the Ancient Warriors. He didn't even realize that the door that opened allowed Jonathan to go straight into the Chamber of the Sacred Markers.

The same mistake was made by Kirk in the Apanuugpak run. It was probably hard for Kirk to see from his angle which door opened.

But if he was heading to the King's Storeroom, Kirk would've seen them up the stairs. It probably was just a Fogg Up.

Jonathan deserves the blame here for what happened in the Room of the Ancient Warriors.

Yes, GM1, it was a Fogg-up. It was not the first, nor would it be the last, Fogg-up either. Both in the "Battle Flag" and "Apanuugpak" runs, Kirk mistakenly said that the boys were heading up to the King's Storeroom, when in fact, they were going directly into the Chamber of the Sacred Markers.

And I'm curious why you think Jonathan deserves all the blame in this run. Could you explain your opinion a bit more?

Offline GreenMonkeys#1

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Re: Who do you primarily blame more for the "William the Conqueror" loss?
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2013, 08:13:39 PM »
Well After the Temple Guard came in the Room of the Ancient Warriors, I saw the Chamber door open, but Jonathan failed to notice it, at that time he could've escaped. But nooo, he just had to do all of the armors.



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Offline PurpleParrot319

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Re: Who do you primarily blame more for the "William the Conqueror" loss?
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2013, 08:27:40 PM »
Well After the Temple Guard came in the Room of the Ancient Warriors, I saw the Chamber door open, but Jonathan failed to notice it, at that time he could've escaped. But nooo, he just had to do all of the armors.

But there's two things:

1. Jonathan just met a temple guard. That probably threw him off.

2. That room is small. The armors being so close to the front of the room most likely made it harder for Jonathan to see the Chamber door.

Again, because of those reasons, I don't think Jonathan deserves a lot of blame for this being a loss. I already talked about what Olivia did wrong, so I won't go into much detail there. However, I think TRJ might be right about Olivia trying to somehow swing back to the platform. Still, she could've at least looked to see what doors were open. She killed way too much time in the pit.



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Offline PurpleParrot4Life

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Re: Who do you primarily blame more for the "William the Conqueror" loss?
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2013, 09:18:45 PM »
Well After the Temple Guard came in the Room of the Ancient Warriors, I saw the Chamber door open, but Jonathan failed to notice it, at that time he could've escaped. But nooo, he just had to do all of the armors.

But there's two things:

1. Jonathan just met a temple guard. That probably threw him off.

2. That room is small. The armors being so close to the front of the room most likely made it harder for Jonathan to see the Chamber door.

Again, because of those reasons, I don't think Jonathan deserves a lot of blame for this being a loss. I already talked about what Olivia did wrong, so I won't go into much detail there. However, I think TRJ might be right about Olivia trying to somehow swing back to the platform. Still, she could've at least looked to see what doors were open. She killed way too much time in the pit.

Not to mention, even after he tried all three armors, Jonathan still hesitated for a few seconds, looking around the room looking for an open door. Clearly, the cramped spacing of the room made it very difficult for him to see the Chamber door had opened from behind the first armor.

There were also other episodes where the players missed the first headdress when coming from the Chamber, since the room was so cramped for space. The contestants passed by the first armor by the time they got into the Ancient Warriors and stood up. The first episodes that come to mind which featured this happen include the "Much-Heralded Helmet of Sir Gawain" and the "Smashed Printing Plate of Frederick Douglass" runs.

Offline The Red Jaguars

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Re: Who do you primarily blame more for the "William the Conqueror" loss?
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2013, 12:13:00 AM »
But Jonathan also tried the armor closest to the Chamber next after trying the first one that opened the door. I am surprised he didn't see the Chamber door open. I guess the Chamber door was too small so he hardly paid attention to it? I guess racing against the clock can have contestants miss a certain details sometimes. And yes, I do think Olivia was trying to swing back to the platform. She wasn't trying to be like Noelle who couldn't even pull herself out of the rope. :P

And BTW, the reason I made this poll for this run and Lost Lariat is because I am using the information collected to gather the general consensus on whose to be blamed for certain losses. Although this poll is a tie right now, which might conclude that both players are equally responsible for this run being losses.  :!:

Offline PurpleParrot4Life

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Re: Who do you primarily blame more for the "William the Conqueror" loss?
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2013, 08:20:03 AM »
But Jonathan also tried the armor closest to the Chamber next after trying the first one that opened the door. I am surprised he didn't see the Chamber door open. I guess the Chamber door was too small so he hardly paid attention to it? I guess racing against the clock can have contestants miss a certain details sometimes. And yes, I do think Olivia was trying to swing back to the platform. She wasn't trying to be like Noelle who couldn't even pull herself out of the rope. :P

And BTW, the reason I made this poll for this run and Lost Lariat is because I am using the information collected to gather the general consensus on whose to be blamed for certain losses. Although this poll is a tie right now, which might conclude that both players are equally responsible for this run being losses.  :!:

Since the armor enclosed the contestants, Jonathan would not have been able to see the Chamber door since that first armor would have blocked his view of the door.

To be completely honest, I don't know why a poll is necessary. I think that it is just as effective if we discuss the contestants' actions in the temple and agree or disagree on which "mistakes" were more costly. Either that, or please add an option on the poll for "Both contestants are equally to blame," since there are certain runs where both contestants' actions significantly impacted the success of their run.

Offline PurpleParrot319

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Re: Who do you primarily blame more for the "William the Conqueror" loss?
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2013, 10:32:49 AM »
I am absolutely stunned that so many people think Jonathan deserves most of the blame. It makes me think that you people haven't watched the run in a long time. :roll:



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Offline The Red Jaguars

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Re: Who do you primarily blame more for the "William the Conqueror" loss?
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2013, 10:57:48 AM »
But Jonathan also tried the armor closest to the Chamber next after trying the first one that opened the door. I am surprised he didn't see the Chamber door open. I guess the Chamber door was too small so he hardly paid attention to it? I guess racing against the clock can have contestants miss a certain details sometimes. And yes, I do think Olivia was trying to swing back to the platform. She wasn't trying to be like Noelle who couldn't even pull herself out of the rope. :P

And BTW, the reason I made this poll for this run and Lost Lariat is because I am using the information collected to gather the general consensus on whose to be blamed for certain losses. Although this poll is a tie right now, which might conclude that both players are equally responsible for this run being losses.  :!:

Since the armor enclosed the contestants, Jonathan would not have been able to see the Chamber door since that first armor would have blocked his view of the door.

To be completely honest, I don't know why a poll is necessary. I think that it is just as effective if we discuss the contestants' actions in the temple and agree or disagree on which "mistakes" were more costly. Either that, or please add an option on the poll for "Both contestants are equally to blame," since there are certain runs where both contestants' actions significantly impacted the success of their run.

The reason I made the poll for this run was because in the past people would always blame either Jonathan or Olivia for this team failing to win in the temple. I think people have already acknowledged that both contestants were responsible for the loss at the end of the day. But then again, Colleen and Chris were also both responsible for their team losing too. A lof of temple losses do have players who both make mistakes and play a factor on why a certain team didn't win. But these same losses also have a player who made a mistake that have a greater impact on the final outcome of the run. The point of both polls were to determine whose mistakes were more detrimental for the final outcome of the run. Not every temple loss is black and white where it is easy to blame one player. I wasn't going to make polls for losses like "Enormous Feather" and "Charles Lindbergh" because it's obvious whose to blame in those losses. The unique part about this temple loss was that both players were good performers in the temple and both made mistakes that could be argued about being avoidable. And maybe the close poll indicates that both players are really to be blamed for the loss? ;)
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 11:04:32 AM by The Red Jaguars »

Offline PurpleParrot4Life

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Re: Who do you primarily blame more for the "William the Conqueror" loss?
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2013, 03:27:56 PM »
I am absolutely stunned that so many people think Jonathan deserves most of the blame. It makes me think that you people haven't watched the run in a long time. :roll:

I am just as surprised as you are. I also thought this poll would have been more one-sided than it is.

Offline PurpleParrot319

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Re: Who do you primarily blame more for the "William the Conqueror" loss?
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2013, 03:39:36 PM »
Weird. Earlier today I saw the score of 4-3 with Jonathan leading. Now it's 4-3 with Olivia leading. Incorrect vote? :|

Also, I'm not trying to start a heated argument over this. I'm just shocked that some users think Jonathan deserves more blame than Olivia. It makes no sense to me.



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Offline The Red Jaguars

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Re: Who do you primarily blame more for the "William the Conqueror" loss?
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2013, 04:56:17 PM »
Well, it's not like Olivia's mistake was so glaring that it trumps Jonathan's mistake. Just take a look at the "Lost Lariat" run we did. Kirk, Colleen, and Chris all made mistakes. But Chris's mistakes were so glaringly obvious that it was easy to pick his mistake out over the other two. In the "William the Conqueror" run, both players made a mistake that wasted the same amount of time.

Offline PurpleParrot4Life

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Re: Who do you primarily blame more for the "William the Conqueror" loss?
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2013, 05:14:16 PM »
Well, it's not like Olivia's mistake was so glaring that it trumps Jonathan's mistake. Just take a look at the "Lost Lariat" run we did. Kirk, Colleen, and Chris all made mistakes. But Chris's mistakes were so glaringly obvious that it was easy to pick his mistake out over the other two. In the "William the Conqueror" run, both players made a mistake that wasted the same amount of time.

I agree that neither Jonathan's nor Olivia's error was "glaringly more obvious" than their partner's mistake. Still, I'm surprised at the number of people who think Jonathan is more to blame than Olivia for this run's outcome.

Olivia spent 25 seconds in the Pit (2:48-2:23), which was an unusually long time, save Veronica from "Bifocal Monocle." Considering she only completed two rooms before getting taken out of the temple, I don't have as good of a basis as I do with Jonathan to know if that would have been the only mistake she would have made, or she would have continued to perform in a similar manner. Also, Olivia is the only person I can think of who unnecessarily climbed the Pit, while there were a number of other episodes where a contestant tried more headdresses than necessary in the Ancient Warriors. Since there were other instances of the same "mistake" made in the Ancient Warriors, I am more forgiving for Jonathan's trying extra headdresses in the Ancient Warriors. Jonathan spent 24 seconds in the Ancient Warriors (0:32-0:08), with 9 of those seconds being spent getting caught by the guard in the middle headdress. That delay used up a significant portion of the time that Jonathan spent in that room. When you also factor in the fact that the door to the Chamber was blocked from view by the first armor, I don't know why some people are so apt to blame Jonathan for this run being a loss.

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Re: Who do you primarily blame more for the "William the Conqueror" loss?
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2013, 06:24:24 PM »
Let's all just agree that they were equally responsible, wasted almost the same amount of time, and this could have been an amazing win if it wasn't for all the mistakes. Yes I realize I was one of those who votes for Jonathan. But now that I think about it, they were equally responsible. So many center of the room runs were complete and utter failures because one of or both players made too many mistakes.

It was both of their faults. I don't think anyone is glaringly to blame.