Author Topic: Temple Guard Locations  (Read 10004 times)

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Offline PurpleParrot4Life

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Re: Temple Guard Locations
« Reply #105 on: January 24, 2013, 10:01:05 PM »
"Missing Eye of David" is first up for S2, L3.

Guards Encountered: Medusa's Lair, Laser Light Room, Swamp
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

All of the guards were encountered, so there shouldn't be any mysteries as to where the were.

Offline PurpleParrot4Life

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Re: Temple Guard Locations
« Reply #106 on: January 24, 2013, 10:28:31 PM »
And next on the list is "Enormous Iron Nose Ring of Babe."

Encountered Guards: NONE
Number of Unencountered Guards: 3
Rooms not Entered: Crypt, Observatory, Medusa's Lair, Lightning Ball Room

Notes: Many people noted that right after Joel plowed through the wall and ran into the Mineshaft, the left tree in the Dark Forest began to flail its arms, showing that one of the guards was there. The other guards were believed to be in the Crypt and one of the other entrance rooms. The Lightning Ball Room was negated as a possibility.

My Thoughts: While capturing a single frame is difficult, if you watch the run for yourself, you can clearly see the Dark Forest left tree's arms move, which indicates that there was a guard there.

-- The half pendant can be seen on the actuator from the Troubled Bridge to the Observatory during Olmec's temple rundown. I have provided an image below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf. There was clearly another route that would have brought the team across the top of the temple, down the central shaft, and then across the bottom floor. One of the guards was always stationed before the half pendant, so that forced the Crypt to hold a guard.




-- Since one of the guards was in an entrance room and another was in the deep inner temple, I think it would have made sense to have a guard in the central shaft. It was common for that temple guard distribution to be used. Additionally, there were not that many runs where the second guard was deep in the temple (along the path that would have forced the team to encounter all three guards). The only runs of this type that come to mind immediately are "Imperial Purple Robe of Empress Theodora," "Red Sash of Tokugawa Ieyasu," and "Discarded Seal of Ivan the Terrible." Therefore, I don't think there would have been a guard in the Lightning Ball Room.

-- Generally in Season 2, the only time guards were placed in the Crypt and Observatory together was when the third guard was also in the outer temple (Medusa's Lair, King's Storeroom, or Laser Light Room spaces). Since the last guard in the "Iron Nose Ring" run was in the deep temple, I believe the final guard was in Medusa's Lair.

-- Often times, when a team began on the lower floor, the door leading to Medusa's Lair opened. In cases where going up to Medusa's Lair would lead to either a dead-end or a useless detour in the wrong direction, there was usually a guard there. Take "Mask of the Man in the Iron Mask," "Golden Stallion of Ali Baba," and "Jeweled Necklace of Montezuma" for instance. This is further evidence supporting the idea that the third guard was in Medusa's Lair.


-- In summary, I think the guards for "Iron Nose Ring" were in the Crypt, Medusa's Lair, and Dark Forest (left tree).

Offline PurpleParrot4Life

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Re: Temple Guard Locations
« Reply #107 on: January 25, 2013, 08:52:35 AM »
Next up is "Very Tall Turban of Ahmed Baba."

Guards Encountered: Swamp
Number of Guards Unencountered: 2
Rooms not Entered: Crypt, Medusa's Lair

Notes: While it would be easy to say that the last two guards were in the two unentered rooms, many people brought up the fact that Shane never tried either of the trees in the Dark Forest, so one of them may have held a guard. People thought one of the guards was in the Crypt because the half pendant was in the Rock Quarry, and there was always a guard prior to the half pendant, which would have forced a guard to be in the Crypt. Some people suggested the Dark Forest held a guard, since Shane never tried either tree. Others believed there was a guard in Medusa's Lair, since it would have been an extra room that detoured from the King's Storeroom.

My Thoughts: This temple guard placement is very tricky. All of the rooms serve as very good possibilities for housing the last two guards. However, due to this run's path and my observations from other episodes, I think it would have made the most sense to place the guards in the Crypt and Dark Forest.

-- The half pendant location in the Rock Quarry suggests to me that there was a guard prior to that room, forcing the Crypt to hold a guard.

-- Unlike many other Season 1 and 2 Observatory/King's Storeroom runs, the Medusa's Lair space did not open from the Laser Light Room space; instead, Shane was given access to Medusa's Lair from the King's Storeroom. Instead of serving as a dead-end early in the run, Medusa's Lair would have served as a detour late into the run. Since the first two guards in my opinion were in the Crypt and Swamp, I doubt the producers would have placed the final guard six rooms after the second guard, in a room that would have only been entered if the team chose to add an extra room onto their path.

-- I feel that the door opening to Medusa's Lair in the "Very Tall Turban" run is akin to the Observatory opening in "Henry Morgan." Even though Shem detoured into the Observatory in that run, there was not a guard in that room; instead, he was "penalized" by using up more time. I think that a similar situation would have played out if Shane went into Medusa's Lair during his run.

-- Another thing that makes me believe the final guard was in the Dark Forest was that the runs surrounding the "Very Tall Turban" had guards in that room as well. The "Enormous Nose Ring" and "Ivory Elephant" runs both featured a guard in the Dark Forest. Normally, temple guard placements are somewhat similar throughout a single production day. Also, imagine how difficult it would have been to place the spotter inside of the trees, do the run, move the guard to a different room, do that run, place the spotter inside the tree again, and finally do the last run. That seems a bit ridiculous and a waste of time on the producers' part. I think it would have made more sense on the producers' part to keep the temple guard in the Dark Forest for all three of those consecutive runs.

Offline Purple Parrots Fan

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Re: Temple Guard Locations
« Reply #108 on: January 25, 2013, 03:00:03 PM »
I disagree, the temple guards had to be in the Crypt and Medusa's Lair. To me, it makes no sense to put it in the Dark Forest, despite the temple spirit from the previous run. I just never ever agreed with the temple guard in the Dark Forest theory. If you remember in "The Mask of the Man in the Iron Mask," the artifact was in the Observatory, with Medusa's Lair and Swamp temple guards. It was probably gonna be the same here.

Offline PurpleParrot319

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Re: Temple Guard Locations
« Reply #109 on: January 25, 2013, 03:02:17 PM »
I actually agree with PP4L. His reasoning behind this seems to be spot on.



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Offline PurpleParrot4Life

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Re: Temple Guard Locations
« Reply #110 on: January 25, 2013, 04:23:10 PM »
I disagree, the temple guards had to be in the Crypt and Medusa's Lair. To me, it makes no sense to put it in the Dark Forest, despite the temple spirit from the previous run. I just never ever agreed with the temple guard in the Dark Forest theory. If you remember in "The Mask of the Man in the Iron Mask," the artifact was in the Observatory, with Medusa's Lair and Swamp temple guards. It was probably gonna be the same here.

The major difference between "Iron Mask" and "Very Tall Turban" is that Medusa's Lair opened from different rooms at different points in their runs. Therefore, the two episodes are not identical in path, and may not have featured a similar temple guard placement. Take "Discarded Seal of Ivan the Terrible" and "Enormous Feather of the Me Linh," for example; you will find that those two Observatory runs and temple guard placements were different. In "Discarded Seal," the team began in the Chamber, and then was forced down, across the bottom floor, and finally back up. The temple guards for that run were all stationed on the top floor, with the first guard early in the run and the other two guards deep in the path. "Enormous Feather of the Me Linh" forced the team directly to the bottom floor and back up, avoiding the Chamber entirely. The two encountered guards for this run were on the bottom floor, and the final guard had to be in either the Ledges or Secret Password. As you can see, just like as was the case with "Iron Mask" and "Very Tall Turban," those two Observatory runs had minor differences in their paths/what doors opened, and as a result, their temple guard placements were severely different and the teams' amounts of success were different.

Offline The Red Jaguars

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Re: Temple Guard Locations
« Reply #111 on: January 25, 2013, 04:41:22 PM »
I don't see how the Enormous Feather/Ivan the Terrible are that comparable. They were two both King's Storeroom temple runs, and that was about it. Karisa and David's temple guard placement were different because they had one pendant. So the producers had to give them at least one option to where they could avoid a temple guard. Travis and Elisa had two pendants, so the Room of the Ancient Warriors guard didn't matter much either way even if it was avoidable. If Karisa and David had the same temple guard placement, it would've been more unfair to them. If anything, the Enormous Feather/Jedediah Smith temple runs were more comparable.

But back to "Ahmed Baba". I rewatched the temple run again and it looks like Medusa's Lair did not open from the Laser Light Room. Shane even tried climbing up into Medusa's Lair, but the door was closed. I think the last guard was indeed in the Dark Forest. It's unclear what tree held the temple spirit since the stage left tree wasn't protecting the breakable wall. But then again, it didn't protect the wall in Joel's run either, so it might've been there.

Offline PurpleParrot4Life

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Re: Temple Guard Locations
« Reply #112 on: January 25, 2013, 05:42:03 PM »
I don't see how the Enormous Feather/Ivan the Terrible are that comparable. They were two both King's Storeroom temple runs, and that was about it. Karisa and David's temple guard placement were different because they had one pendant. So the producers had to give them at least one option to where they could avoid a temple guard. Travis and Elisa had two pendants, so the Room of the Ancient Warriors guard didn't matter much either way even if it was avoidable. If Karisa and David had the same temple guard placement, it would've been more unfair to them. If anything, the Enormous Feather/Jedediah Smith temple runs were more comparable.

My purpose for comparing those runs was to show that when different doors were available (even when the runs seemed generally similar in path), the temple guard placements were different. The number of pendants affected the temple guard placements, but nonetheless, my overarching idea holds true if we are to compare any of the Season 3 King's Storeroom runs. In all of the cases, the paths were slightly different due to which doors were accessible. Because a different sequence of doors was open, the temple guards had to be arranged differently.

Likewise, a different sequence of doors was available when comparing "Iron Mask" with "Very Tall Turban," so the temple guards were most likely arranged in a different combination.

But back to "Ahmed Baba". I rewatched the temple run again and it looks like Medusa's Lair did not open from the Laser Light Room. Shane even tried climbing up into Medusa's Lair, but the door was closed. I think the last guard was indeed in the Dark Forest. It's unclear what tree held the temple spirit since the stage left tree wasn't protecting the breakable wall. But then again, it didn't protect the wall in Joel's run either, so it might've been there.

Yes, the door from the Laser Light Room to Medusa's Lair was locked. When Shane completed the King's Storeroom, doors leading to both the Observatory and Medusa's Lair opened. I have provided an image below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf. It would not have been likely for the team's path to have allowed them to go from the Ledges to the Rock Quarry, then into the Laser Light Room, up to Medusa's Lair, across to the King's Storeroom, and then up into the Observatory.




Another thing worth mentioning is that when Shane completed the statue in the Shrine, the door leading back down to the Dark Forest did not open. It would not have been the first time where there was a guard in the Dark Forest without the team being granted access directly to the Shrine. In fact, this scenario strengthens the possibility of having a guard in the Dark Forest: the team would have been "punished" with a temple guard encounter if they tried to find a key to take the shortcut directly to the Shrine.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2013, 12:23:32 AM by PurpleParrot4Life »

Offline The Red Jaguars

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Re: Temple Guard Locations
« Reply #113 on: January 26, 2013, 12:46:41 AM »
I don't think the last guard was in Medusa's Lair then even if Shane did enter the room. It seemed like a useless detour to me like the Observatory door opening in the "Henry Morgan" run even though Shane could've entered the Room of the Mandarin Hand directly. Either way, Shane got pretty lucky with his temple guard placement even though he took the longest way possible.

Offline PurpleParrot4Life

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Re: Temple Guard Locations
« Reply #114 on: January 26, 2013, 10:30:04 AM »
I don't think the last guard was in Medusa's Lair then even if Shane did enter the room. It seemed like a useless detour to me like the Observatory door opening in the "Henry Morgan" run even though Shane could've entered the Room of the Mandarin Hand directly. Either way, Shane got pretty lucky with his temple guard placement even though he took the longest way possible.

I think you mean Shem, not Shane, for the "Henry Morgan" run. ;)

As far as Shane's route goes, I agree that he was incredibly lucky to have the temple guard placement he had. Considering he navigated nearly every room en route to the artifact, there was a very high chance he would encounter at least one more guard. Still, one must consider that a number of the Observatory runs in Seasons 1 and 2 had guard placements that allowed solo victories (Star of Sultan Saladin, Belly Button of Buddha, Very Tall Turban of Ahmed Baba, and Milk Bucket of Freydis). There were a few other Observatory episodes from those seasons which also could have been solo victories, had the teams from those episodes avoided certain rooms (Medusa's Lair in "Iron Mask," for example). So I guess that, all things considered, having two avoidable guards for the "Very Tall Turban" run was not that outlandish or unexpected.

Offline The Red Jaguars

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Re: Temple Guard Locations
« Reply #115 on: January 26, 2013, 11:58:03 AM »
I don't consider "Freydis" and "Buddha" to be that lucky of a win when the teams did take shortcuts in those runs. As a result, they avoided a potential guard one way or another that might've changed the outcome of their run depending on how fast their partners were. Then again, both Tarrah and Jennifer made the mistake of detouring into the room to the left of the Shrine. That could've been detrimental to them as well. But Shane got lucky either way that his run didn't end similar to "Annie Oakley" and "Lost Fountain of Youth" where the teams in those runs took the longest way possible and got caught one room away.

Offline PurpleParrot4Life

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Re: Temple Guard Locations
« Reply #116 on: January 26, 2013, 12:18:04 PM »
I don't consider "Freydis" and "Buddha" to be that lucky of a win when the teams did take shortcuts in those runs. As a result, they avoided a potential guard one way or another that might've changed the outcome of their run depending on how fast their partners were. Then again, both Tarrah and Jennifer made the mistake of detouring into the room to the left of the Shrine. That could've been detrimental to them as well. But Shane got lucky either way that his run didn't end similar to "Annie Oakley" and "Lost Fountain of Youth" where the teams in those runs took the longest way possible and got caught one room away.

I would like to clarify that I was not calling the "Freydis" and "Buddha" lucky in the sense that they were wins. I said that it was lucky that the other two guards were avoidable, especially considering how many rooms both of those teams were forced to enter. Yes, Tarrah and Jennifer took shortcuts which may have allowed them to bypass a guard. But it was lucky that their paths and sequences of open doors ALLOWED them to do so. Those runs, as well as "Very Tall Turban" and "Star of Sultan Saladin," very easily could have ended up like "Annie Oakley" or "Lost Fountain of Youth," with two guards being placed in rooms that the teams were forced to enter.

Offline PurpleParrot4Life

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Re: Temple Guard Locations
« Reply #117 on: January 26, 2013, 12:20:43 PM »
Next up are "Ivory Elephant of Scheherazade" and "Sacred Ring of Sultan Suleiman."

Ivory Elephant of Scheherazade
Guards Encountered: Ledges, King's Storeroom, Dark Forest (right tree)
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0


Sacred Ring of Sultan Suleiman
Guards Encountered: Ledges, Observatory, Medusa's Lair
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0


All of the guards in both episodes were encountered. There should not be any question as to where they were.

Offline PurpleParrot4Life

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Re: Temple Guard Locations
« Reply #118 on: January 26, 2013, 06:45:31 PM »
Next on the list is "Plumed Headdress of Cosa Rara."

Encountered Guards: Laser Light Room, King's Storeroom
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Crypt, Lightning Ball Room, Dark Forest, Swamp

Notes: People in the past had mixed opinions about where the final guard was in this run. Some people suggested the last guard was in the Crypt. Others hypothesized the guard was in the Lightning Ball Room. Since the step in the staircase lowered from the Observatory leading back to the Troubled Bridge, they believed the last guard had to be in the Lightning Ball Room so that he would be unavoidable if the team took the bottom route. There was also question regarding whether the team would have been given direct access to the Mineshaft from the Shrine, or whether they would have been forced into the Lightning Ball Room/Dark Forest.

My Thoughts: The elevator was in the Lightning Ball Room during the rundown for the "Plumed Headdress" run. With this placement, I believe the team would have been forced to enter the Lightning Ball Room from the Shrine. Also when the run ended, Kirk said the team was two rooms away, which further implies that the door leading directly from the Shrine to the Mineshaft probably would have been locked.

-- The Swamp appeared to be locked from the Laser Light Room, and I doubt both the Lightning Ball Room and Dark Forest would have opened from the Shrine. Since the elevator was up in the Lightning Ball Room, there was a better chance that the team would have entered the Lightning Room over the Dark Forest. That only leaves the Lightning Ball Room and Crypt as viable options to hold guards.

-- Even though the team would have been forced into the Lightning Ball Room, I think the last guard was in the Crypt. The Crypt was the only unentered room prior to the half pendant. Keep in mind that it was not uncommon for an entrance room to hold a guard and then force a team to the other entrance room. Also, the half pendant location and door opening from the Observatory to the Troubled Bridge makes perfect sense. That combination left the team with three possibilities:
  • If the team began in the Crypt and went straight to the Observatory, they would have bypassed the half pendant. However, that would not have mattered, since they would have also avoided the Laser Light Room guard.
  • If the team began in the Ledges and then took the central shaft up, they would have avoided the Crypt guard and would have come across the half pendant which they would not have needed (i.e., what the team did in the "Plumed Headdress" run).
  • If the team began in the Crypt, went down to the Ledges, and then took the central shaft back up, the team would have encountered all three guards. This single path would have allowed all three guards to be encountered but not all forced (even though there were other episodes, such as "Thornwood Gavel," where the temple guards placements made it physically impossible to encounter all three on a single path). On that route, they would have come across the half pendant in the Rock Quarry and would have needed it.

Offline The Red Jaguars

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Re: Temple Guard Locations
« Reply #119 on: January 27, 2013, 12:52:44 AM »
The Observatory did not open to the Troubled Bridge in the Cosa Rara run actually. When Jessica is in the Rock Quarry, you can still see the Observatory door closed from the Troubled Bridge. So if the team did enter the Crypt, it looks like they would've been forced down into the Ledges all along.