Author Topic: Artifacts Located in the "Center of the Rooms"  (Read 1293 times)

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Offline PurpleParrot4Life

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Artifacts Located in the "Center of the Rooms"
« on: November 12, 2012, 11:29:11 PM »
I looked through the site and couldn't find any topics specifically about the "Center of the Rooms" artifacts, so I thought I'd bring up a new topic to discuss these particular episodes.

As it turns out, there were a total of thirteen artifacts placed in the "Center of the Rooms." Three were placed there in the first season (Ponce de Leon and the Lost Fountain of Youth, Helmet of Joan of Arc, and Codebook of Mata Hari); four were placed there in the second season (Lucky Pillow of Annie Taylor, Ivory Elephant of Scheherazade, Leopard-Skin Cloak of Annie Oakley, and Golden Earring of Henry Morgan); and six were placed there in the third season (Comet-Embroidered Battle Flag of William the Conqueror, Marble Armrest of Xerxes, Golden Spider Web of Robert the Bruce, Missing Portrait of Hans Holbein, Mussel Shell Armor of Apanuugpak, and Lost Whale Bone of Pytheas).

Of these artifacts, only two were successfully brought out of the temple: Lucky Pillow and Mussel Shell Armor. The Golden Earring and Battle Flag were grabbed in the final seconds of their respective runs as well. What is interesting about these four runs is that all of their paths forced them through the bottom floor and then up to the top floor. The artifact was never reached when the team was forced to start on the upper floor and then descend to the lower floor. What do you think caused this particular pattern to occur?

Might it have been because the teams were forced to complete at least one extra task in the Observatory, which could be bypassed if the team began on the bottom floor?
Were the other teams not as well-suited to take on the grueling paths? Were the paths more difficult when the teams started on the upper floor?
Were the temple guard placements more harsh in those other episodes? Were they just unlucky enough to have fewer pendants in the temple?

Offline The Red Jaguars

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Re: Artifacts Located in the "Center of the Rooms"
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2012, 11:59:55 PM »
Yeah, the center of the temple runs where the players had to get to the artifact from top floor to the bottom floor were the hardest runs. My reasoning was that the path was just more grueling for these teams. The additional objective in the top of the central shaft is definitely part of it. Also, these temple runs forced the players to complete the Golden Doors room while the other center of the temple runs from the bottom floor gave the team the option to plow through the wall. And those four top to bottom floor temple runs layouts were just too grueling:

"Lost Fountain of Youth" had the temple guard layout designed where the only way for the teams to win was by encountering all three guards.

"Ivory Elephant" was a lengthy layout too, although Monica wasted unnecessary time in the Ledges and assembled the stone column in horrible fashion. Plus, they didn't take any shortcuts either.

"Hans Holbein" was just an impossible layout and the teams had no shortcuts to use on top of that. But the players here were kind of just average.

"Robert the Bruce" was just the above temple run again including exact layout and the temple runs entering the same room.

Notice how these four temple runs had the teams make the same mistake - taking the extra long route via the two corners rooms o nthe left-hand side of the temple. Although the "Hans Holbein" and "Robert the Bruce" team were forced along this path.

Offline PurpleParrot4Life

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Re: Artifacts Located in the "Center of the Rooms"
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2012, 09:15:01 PM »
How successful do you think the four successful teams (Missy, Amanda/Gator, Ashley/Shem, Olivia/Jonathan) would have been if they had to start on the upper floor? Would they still have had successful runs? Would they at least have been more successful than the other teams that had to begin on the upper floor?

Essentially, do you feel that the teams that were forced to start on the upper floor were less-able contestants than the teams that made it to the Center of the Rooms? Or was the determining factor that they had to complete the Observatory and Golden Doors rooms, while the bottom floor teams did not (necessarily) have to complete them?

Offline The Red Jaguars

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Re: Artifacts Located in the "Center of the Rooms"
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2012, 12:26:04 AM »
I highly doubt that any of those four teams would've even reached the artifact. But then again, that depends on so many variables like temple layouts and temple guard placement. If they had a layout like "Hans Holbein" then no way any of them would've won. The only team that I would think would have a chance would be Ashley and Shem, but that was because the season two temple was more simpler than season three. No way Gator/Amanda would've won because Amanda was way too slow, although knowing Gator they might've reached the Mussel-Shell Armor. Olivia and Jonathan might've come close too, but I don't think they would've reached the Battle Flag.

At the end of the day, I don't think there would be any center of the temple wins via top to bottom floor on the show. After all, why weren't there any bottom of the central shaft wins? It was just how the temple was laid out where retrieving the artifact from top to bottom was more difficult. Hell, there were only two artifacts brought out from the Swamp area in the show's history. And one of those came down to literally the last second. So I think temple layouts where the teams had to get the artifact out of the bottom floor was much more tougher. You wonder why there were no Dark Forest victories on the show!  :o

Offline PurpleParrot4Life

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Re: Artifacts Located in the "Center of the Rooms"
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2012, 02:58:41 PM »
That is a really good point, TRJ. I never realized that so few artifacts were retrieved from the lower floor, even though 51 of the 120 episodes featured artifacts on that level. It makes sense, though, since the upper floor objectives required more time to complete the more elaborate objectives.

One other thing that I find unusual is that in Season Three, the number of rooms that needed to be completed varied greatly from room to room (based on where the artifact was located). The episodes that featured the artifact in the Shrine of the Silver Monkey usually only required the team to complete the bottom floor of the temple. The "Bifocal Monocle" team should have completed the Chamber of the Sacred Markers and then gone down to the bottom floor. But every other instance I can think of only forced the team to go through the bottom floor: Roland, Snakeskin Boots, Secret Map, Broken Trident, and Metal Beard.

Then, the episodes where the artifact was in the Room of the Ancient Warriors often forced the team to complete more central shaft rooms, in addition to the Shrine of the Silver Monkey. While "Jeweled Scabbard of Sforza" and "Jewel-Encrusted Egg" were both wins, they did not have to complete rooms in both the central shaft and inner bottom floor. Both the "Dried Apple Half" and "Belle Boyd" teams had to traverse the whole central shaft and complete the inner bottom floor rooms in order to win, and neither did.

It just seems weird to me that the producers often made the Ancient Warriors runs have longer layouts, while forcing the Shrine of the Silver Monkey runs to only complete three or four mildly easy bottom floor rooms. I feel that this disparity in temple run lengths greatly impacted which runs were wins and which ones were not.

Offline The Red Jaguars

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Re: Artifacts Located in the "Center of the Rooms"
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2012, 05:36:13 PM »
I agree, PP4L. The room location for the artifact definitely had an impact in regards to difficulty of a temple layout. No matter what season it was, it always seemed like the Shrine artifact temple runs were more simpler. Not all of them were, but a majority of them were though. It always seemed like the artifacts located in the Swamp and Dark Forest were the toughest because they had more lengthier layouts. These temple runs always seemed to give the players two options:

1.) Start at the bottom of the central shaft and work all the way up
2.) Start at the top of the central shaft

Usually, teams always started at the bottom of the central shaft and it proved them costly: Stolen Arm, Kamehameha, Judge Roy Bean, Madame Tussaud, Egyptian King, Stone Head, Stone Marker, and Leonardo Da Vinci are runs that come to mind where the team started at the bottom of the central shaft instead of choosing the top. Had they chose the top, they might've had a better chance at winning.

And yeah, the Room of the Ancient Warrior temple runs were very brutal in season three it seemed. Both "William Tell" and "Belle Boyd" gave the teams a devilish layout. And even "Snow Cone" gave the team the option to start at the top of the central shaft. I guess that is why both the "Sforza" and "Catherine the Great" layouts were more simple compared to those three runs.

Offline PurpleParrot4Life

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Re: Artifacts Located in the "Center of the Rooms"
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2012, 08:42:13 PM »
I feel that the "Judge Roy Bean" team would have had a good chance of reaching the Gavel if Kelli had followed Michael's path through the Tomb of the Headless Kings. Her detour to the King's Storeroom cost her 30-40 seconds. While I agree that the route was longer when the teams chose the lower door in the Swamp area, it was still doable for this team in particular. It was the fact that Kelli chose to complete the extra unnecessary room that hurt their chances to reach the Jesters' Court.

Overall, I agree that taking the lower door usually ended up costing the teams in the end, but it depends on whether taking the upper door would have saved the team from completing additional or more time consuming objectives. And there are also other factors that played into the teams' abilities to reach the Swamp areas. Other flaws in the other contestants' performances- including slower speed, getting caught in the "triangular loop to nowhere" (the Observatory/ Heart Room/ Treasure Room), and lack of efficiency in completing room objectives- played more of a role in them not reaching the artifacts in the Swamp area rather than choosing the lower door over the upper one.

Offline The Red Jaguars

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Re: Artifacts Located in the "Center of the Rooms"
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2012, 01:09:17 AM »
I feel that the "Judge Roy Bean" team would have had a good chance of reaching the Gavel if Kelli had followed Michael's path through the Tomb of the Headless Kings. Her detour to the King's Storeroom cost her 30-40 seconds. While I agree that the route was longer when the teams chose the lower door in the Swamp area, it was still doable for this team in particular. It was the fact that Kelli chose to complete the extra unnecessary room that hurt their chances to reach the Jesters' Court.

I agree, it was Kelli's fault that the team lost, not really because of the temple layout. All she had to do was read out a password (moderate difficulty), slide down a slide (easy difficulty), and find a key in the Dark Forest (moderate difficulty). Yet, she added an additional objective for no reason, moved slow, and tried completing objectives that were already done. She is the real reason they lost. Although the layout was still pretty lengthy.
Quote
Overall, I agree that taking the lower door usually ended up costing the teams in the end, but it depends on whether taking the upper door would have saved the team from completing additional or more time consuming objectives. And there are also other factors that played into the teams' abilities to reach the Swamp areas. Other flaws in the other contestants' performances- including slower speed, getting caught in the "triangular loop to nowhere" (the Observatory/ Heart Room/ Treasure Room), and lack of efficiency in completing room objectives- played more of a role in them not reaching the artifacts in the Swamp area rather than choosing the lower door over the upper one.

Oh yeah, it definitely wasn't always about layout.  Slow runners and contestant stupidity have caused failure in plenty of Swamp area runs that could've been wins. Like Tess screwing up in "Sojourner Truth" in the Dark Forest, Ashlie from "Dolley Madison" wasting too much time in the Dark Forest, and the "Shiva" team just being plain slow. In fact, it usually just isn't a temple layout that is a team downfall except in really rare cases (like "Ivan the Terrible" and "Belle Boyd").

Offline GreenMonkeys#1

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Re: Artifacts Located in the "Center of the Rooms"
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2012, 08:08:23 AM »
So let's say in the Mussel Shell Armor episode, what if Amanda started in The Crypt, down to the Pit, Knocked down the column and somehow made it back, came up to the King's Storeroom to the Room of the Ancient Warriors, to the Shrine of the Silver Monkey, gives up her pendant in the Shrine. Climbs down to the Dark Forest, where she is taken out, then Gator would follow that path and proceed into the Jester's Court, then the Tomb of the Headless Kings, then climbing into the Chamber of Sacred Markers, grabs the Mussel Shell Armor and dashes out. Could this run still be a victory in this layout?
« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 08:10:01 AM by GreenMonkeys#1 »



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Offline PurpleParrot4Life

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Re: Artifacts Located in the "Center of the Rooms"
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2012, 12:24:38 PM »
So let's say in the Mussel Shell Armor episode, what if Amanda started in The Crypt, down to the Pit, Knocked down the column and somehow made it back, came up to the King's Storeroom to the Room of the Ancient Warriors, to the Shrine of the Silver Monkey, gives up her pendant in the Shrine. Climbs down to the Dark Forest, where she is taken out, then Gator would follow that path and proceed into the Jester's Court, then the Tomb of the Headless Kings, then climbing into the Chamber of Sacred Markers, grabs the Mussel Shell Armor and dashes out. Could this run still be a victory in this layout?

I don't see this alternative as a plausible victory. Amanda had a difficult time in the Pit of the Pendulum, and would not have been able to get back to the platform. She would have had to have spent time climbing the face of the wall to enter the King's Storeroom. Next, the Shrine of the Silver Monkey would most likely have opened to the Quicksand Bog, but not the Dark Forest (as was their path in the actual run). You also need to consider that Amanda was taken out five rooms into the temple, and with your proposed path, she would have covered seven rooms. That would have eaten up a lot more time from the clock. Gator was certainly fast in covering Amanda's path, but I don't think that there would have been enough time for him to clear the Dark Forest, Jesters' Court, and Tomb of the Headless Kings. Not only would Amanda have been taken out two rooms later, but they would have had to have completed the King's Storeroom (which they didn't clear in their actual run) and they would have had to have found the key in the Dark Forest rather than just plow through the wall (which may have saved a few seconds). Overall, Gator got out of the temple with 0:09 seconds to spare in their actual run. I doubt that they could have cleared an extra room and spared Amanda going into two more rooms in the remaining 0:09 to manage a victory in your proposed path.

Offline The Red Jaguars

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Re: Artifacts Located in the "Center of the Rooms"
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2012, 11:34:44 PM »
I agree with PP4L, I just don't think Amanda had what it take to win in a layout where the team had to get to the Mussel-Shell Armor from the bottom floor of the temple. She was slow in general in the rooms she entered and she kind of struggled to complete some of the objectives. It shouldn't have taken her about 1:30 to make it to the Dark Forest in the first place. The only way they would've won in a top-bottom floor center of the temple run would be if Gator went in first and it was possible for a solo run. But most of the time it was never really possible to get a solo run in these layouts anyways. Unless he had a "Tokugawa Ieyasu" type layout where both guards were located in the far left corner of the temple and one avoidable guard in one of the entrance rooms.

Offline PurpleParrot4Life

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Re: Artifacts Located in the "Center of the Rooms"
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2012, 06:57:06 PM »
I agree with PP4L, I just don't think Amanda had what it take to win in a layout where the team had to get to the Mussel-Shell Armor from the bottom floor of the temple. She was slow in general in the rooms she entered and she kind of struggled to complete some of the objectives. It shouldn't have taken her about 1:30 to make it to the Dark Forest in the first place. The only way they would've won in a top-bottom floor center of the temple run would be if Gator went in first and it was possible for a solo run. But most of the time it was never really possible to get a solo run in these layouts anyways. Unless he had a "Tokugawa Ieyasu" type layout where both guards were located in the far left corner of the temple and one avoidable guard in one of the entrance rooms.

Or if two guard were placed in the far-left rooms, and the door to the Dark Forest opened, allowing the contestant to bypass both that way.

Offline PurpleParrot4Life

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Re: Artifacts Located in the "Center of the Rooms"
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2012, 11:07:29 PM »
Although this isn't a "Center of the Rooms" run, I had a question regarding the "Bent Shaving Pan of Jedidiah Smith because it relates to the "Center of the Rooms" in a sort of roundabout way.

Irish tried all three headdresses in the Room of the Ancient Warriors and got taken out of the temple by the guard in the middle armor. Do you think that the door to the King's Storeroom or the Chamber of the Sacred Markers? One of the doors had to have opened since she tried all of the armors. The only other times when a contestant went from the Ancient Warriors to the central shaft (besides the dead end backtrack in the "Bifocal Monocle" run) were in "Mussel Shell Armor," "Comet-Embroidered Battle Flag," and "Enormous Feather." In each of these cases, the door leading straight to the artifact's room opened. It is certain that this also would have been the case in "Discarded Seal" since the team already entered the Chamber of the Sacred Markers. But I still unsure as to whether the "Bent Shaving Pan" would have been given direct access to the King's Storeroom. It's strange to think that if the door to the King's Storeroom opened, then all Brian would have had to do was sprint all the way around the temple and back, without stopping to complete a single objective.

Offline PurpleParrot319

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Re: Artifacts Located in the "Center of the Rooms"
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2012, 11:25:15 PM »
I think the Sacred Markers had to have opened and not the Storeroom. There's no way the production crew would give Brian a free pass to the artifact without completing any objectives.

Another questionable run related to this is The Lost Whale Bone of Pytheas. I know the team went through 8 rooms, but would the Sacred Markers have opened if Damien moved faster?



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Offline The Red Jaguars

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Re: Artifacts Located in the "Center of the Rooms"
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2012, 11:37:20 PM »
I disagree, I believe that Brian would've been allowed to enter the King's Storeroom directly. Irish encountered her second temple guard one room away from the King's Storeroom. I am assuming that the last temple guard was in the Ledges and if Irish started there, then they wouldn't have met the one room away guard. The only reason Brian would have a free pass was that Irish was able to avoid a early temple guard and complete a path all the way to the Shrine.

And I also think the Chamber door would've opened for Damien also. The layout is similar to "William the Conqueror" and "Apanuugpak" and the Chamber door opened directly from the Ancient Warriors in those runs. ;)