Phantom's Temple

The Temple => The Heart Room => Topic started by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 04, 2013, 01:24:35 PM

Title: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 04, 2013, 01:24:35 PM
Identifying the temple guard locations in each episode has been brought up previously in the Heart Room topic "Where were the temple guards?", but not every episode was completed. Hopefully we can do that here. Feel free to use the other topic for reference.

Ideally, I'd like to go through one episode at a time so that each episode gets undivided attention. If you have any thoughts about where unseen temple guards were, please comment!


RUNNING TALLY: Below is the list of where the guards were or were thought to have been in each episode. Rooms in parentheses are rooms in which a guard was spotted but did not capture a contestant. Episodes preceded by a "~" note that those episodes featured fewer than three guards encountered, but everyone was in consensus about where the remaining guards were. Those rooms are listed in bold. Episodes preceded by a "**" are still unfinished, but the suggested/potential guards are listed with the episode in italics.

** Blackbeard’s Treasure Map: Cave of Sighs, Room of Harmonic Convergence, Tomb of Ancient Kings
** Golden Cup of Belshazzar: Cave of Sighs, Treasure Room, Swamp
~ Galileo’s Cannonball: Throne Room, Shrine, Gargoyle Room
Wild Bill Hickok and the Dead Man’s Hand: Cave of Sighs, Heart Room, Swamp
John Henry’s Lost Hammer: Heart Room, Throne Room, (Cave of Sighs)
** Golden Cricket Cage of Khan: Throne Room, Heart Room, ?
Elizabeth I’s Golden Ship: Cave of Sighs, Heart Room, Room of the Golden Idols
John Sutter and the Map to the Lost Goldmine: Cave of Sighs, Throne Room, Room of the Golden Idols
~ Star of Sultan Saladin: Tomb of Ancient Kings, (Cave of Sighs), Heart Room
** Keys to the Alhambra: Throne Room, Tomb of Ancient Kings, either the Gargoyle Room or the Shrine
~ Helmet of Genghis Khan: Cave of Sighs, Shrine, Heart Room
Trojan Horseshoe: Heart Room, Shrine, (Spider’s Lair)
Pendant of Kamehameha: Throne Room, Heart Room, Dungeon
Lost Logbooks of Magellan: Room of Harmonic Convergence, Heart Room, Pirate's Cove
** Moccasins of Geronimo:  Observatory, Rooms of the Three Gargoyles, Heart Room
Henry VIII’s Great Seal: Cave of Sighs, Heart Room, Tomb of Ancient Kings
~ Lucky Pig of Amelia Earhart: Observatory, Swamp, Heart Room
Ponce de Leon and the Lost Fountain of Youth: Observatory, Room of Harmonic Convergence, (Cave of Sighs)
** Treasure Map of Jean Lafitte: Room of Harmonic Convergence, Heart Room, Tomb of Ancient Kings
** Oracle Bowl of Delphi: Gargoyle Room, Swamp, Treasure Room
** Paintbrush of Leonardo da Vinci: Swamp, Observatory, Shrine
** Golden Chains of Zenobia: Cave of Sighs, Treasure Room, either the Well or Room of Three Torches
** Belly Button of Buddha: Treasure Room, Heart Room, Well
** Stolen Arm of Shiva: Cave of Sighs, Observatory, Tomb of Ancient Kings
** Stone Marker of Leif Erikson: Bamboo Forest, Observatory, either the Shrine or Torch Room
** Helmet of Joan of Arc: Gargoyle Room, Room of Harmonic Convergence, Treasure Room
Medal of Sir Edmund Hillary: Gargoyle Room, Heart Room, Shrine
** Mask of Shaka Zulu: Cave of Sighs, either the Treasure Room/Torch Room or Heart Room/Shrine
** Golden Jaguar of Atahualpa: Heart Room, Shrine, Gargoyle Room
** Silver Saddle Horn of Hannibal: Treasure Room, Holes of Python, Well
~ Alexander and the Gordian Knot: Throne Room, Tomb of Ancient Kings, Treasure Room
 King Tut's Cobra Staff: Heart Room, Shrine, (Cave of Sighs)
Dragon Lady and the Blue Pearl: Treasure Room, Tomb of Ancient Kings, (Cave of Sighs)
** Codebook of Mata Hari: Holes of Python, Treasure Room, Room of the Royal Gongs
~ Pecos Bill's Lost Lariat: Heart Room, Treasure Room, Throne Room
~ Robin Hood and Marian's Ladder: Throne Room, Heart Room, Observatory
Lawrence of Arabia's Headdress: Cave of Sighs, Room of the Fallen Columns, Treasury of Golden Orbs
~ Collar of Davy Crockett: Throne Room, Observatory, Room of the Royal Gongs
Snake Bracelet of Cleopatra: Room of the Fallen Columns, Treasury of Golden Orbs, (Cave of Sighs)
Treasure of Anne Bonny: Room of the Royal Gongs, Throne Room, Room of Fallen Columns

** Silver Horseshoe of Butch Cassidy: Dark Forest (left tree), Crypt, Observatory
Secret Battle Plans of Nathan Hale: Crypt, Observatory, King's Storeroom
Golden Stallion of Ali Baba: Heart Room, Throne Room, Dark Forest (left tree)
Silver Cannonball of Grandy Nanny: Ledges, King's Storeroom, Shrine
Walking Stick of Harriet Tubman: Crypt, Throne Room, Shrine
Lost Love Letter of Captain John Smith: Throne Room, Medusa's Lair, Shrine
** Diary of Dr. Livingstone: Throne Room, Dark Forest (left tree), either Ledges or Heart Room
~ Bone Necklace of the Blackfeet Chief: Swamp, Dark Forest (left tree), Crypt
~ Mush Pot Hat of Johnny Appleseed: Crypt, King's Storeroom, Medusa’s Lair
Cracked Crown of the Spanish King: Ledges, Throne Room, Dark Forest (left tree)
** Imperial Purple Robe of Empress Theodora: Dark Forest (right tree), Shrine, Ledges
Stone Head of the Evil King: Throne Room, Medusa's Lair, King's Storeroom
** Lucky Medallion of Atocha: Ledges, two of the bottom floor rooms
~ Applewood Amulet of Emiliano Zapata: Medusa's Lair, King's Storeroom, Crypt
~ Electrified Key of Benjamin Franklin: Medusa's Lair, King's Storeroom, Crypt
~ Lucky Pillow of Annie Taylor: Throne Room, Crypt, Mineshaft
Missing Eye of David: Medusa's Lair, Laser Light Room, Swamp
** Enormous Iron Nose Ring of Babe: Dark Forest (left tree), Crypt, Medusa’s Lair
** Very Tall Turban of Ahmed Baba: Swamp, Crypt, Dark Forest
Ivory Elephant of Scheherazade: Ledges, King's Storeroom, Dark Forest (right tree)
Sacred Ring of Sultan Suleiman: Ledges, Observatory, Medusa's Lair
** Plumed Headdress of Cosa Rara: Laser Light Room, King's Storeroom, Crypt
Jeweled Necklace of Montezuma: Crypt, Medusa's Lair, Dark Forest (left tree)
Lost Lion Tail of Little John: Ledges, Swamp, Dark Forest (left tree)
** Shriveled Hand of Efoua: Observatory, Medusa's Lair, Ledges
~ Mask of the Man in the Iron Mask: Medusa's Lair, Swamp, Crypt
Crown of Queen Nzinga: Laser Light Room, Swamp, Dark Forest (right tree)
Two-Cornered Hat of Napoleon: Crypt, Laser Light Room, Swamp
Silk Sash of Mulan: Crypt, Observatory, Laser Light Room
~ Golden Goblet of Attila the Hun: Medusa's Lair, Ledges, Secret Password
~ Leopard-Skin Cloak of Annie Oakley: Laser Light Room, King's Storeroom, Ledges
** Snakeskin Boots of Billy the Kid: Crypt, Laser Light Room, Secret Password
Golden Pepperoni of Catherine de Medici: Crypt, Laser Light Room, King's Storeroom
** Golden Earring of Henry Morgan: Laser Light Room, Mineshaft, Ledges
** Milk Bucket of Freydis: Laser Light Room and two of the following: Crypt, Mandarin Hand, or Mineshaft
Missing Weather Maps of Charles Lindbergh: Ledges, King's Storeroom, Shrine
~ Levitating Dog Leash of Nostradamus: Laser Light Room, Mandarin Hand, Ledges
** Broken Wing of Icarus: Mandarin Hand, Ledges, Laser Light Room
~ Bonnet of Dolley Madison: Ledges, King's Storeroom, Mandarin Hand
Priceless Portrait of the Polynesian Girl: Crypt, Mandarin Hand, Observatory

** Bifocal Monocle of One-Eyed Jack: Ancient Warriors (armor 3), King's Storeroom, Quicksand Bog
Comet-Embroidered Battle Flag of William the Conqueror: Crypt, Ancient Warriors (armor 2), Tomb of the Headless Kings
~ War Fan of the Forty-Seven Ronin: Crypt, Secret Password, Dark Forest
** Much-Heralded Helmet of Sir Gawain: Ledges, Chamber, Secret Password
** Lion-Headed Bracelet of Chandragupta: Ancient Warriors (armor 1), Crypt, Dark Forest
** Lion-Slashed Jacket of Sacajawea: Tomb of the Headless Kings, King's Storeroom, Ledges
~ Secret Map of the Bandit Queen: Tomb of the Headless Kings, Dark Forest (left tree), Chamber
Thornwood Gavel of Judge Roy Bean: King's Storeroom, Chamber, Secret Password
** Snow Cone of Mount Kilimanjaro: Tomb of the Headless Kings, Dark Forest (right tree), either the King’s Storeroom or Chamber
Upside-Down Compass of Henry Hudson: Chamber, King's Storeroom, Ancient Warriors (armor 1)
** Bent Shaving Pan of Jedidiah Smith: Tomb of the Headless Kings, Ancient Warriors (armor 2), Ledges
** Marble Armrest of Xerxes: Tomb of the Headless Kings, Quicksand Bog, either the Shrine or Ancient Warriors
** Smashed Printing Plate of Frederick Douglass: Ancient Warriors (armor 1), Dark Forest (left tree), either Crypt or King’s Storeroom
~ Mystical Spellbook of the Imperial Wizard: Ancient Warriors (armor 1), Quicksand Bog, Chamber
Useless Map of the Chibcha Chieftain: Crypt, Tomb of the Headless Kings, King's Storeroom
Golden Spider Web of Robert the Bruce: King's Storeroom, Ancient Warriors (armor 1), Quicksand Bog
Discarded Seal of Ivan the Terrible: Chamber, Shrine, Ancient Warriors (armor 3)
** Mysterious Manuscript of Mary Shelley: Chamber, Shrine (should have been Ancient Warriors Armor 2), perhaps either the Ledges or Secret Password
** Dried Apple Half of William Tell: Ledges, Tomb of the Headless Kings, perhaps either the Dark Forest or Quicksand Bog
Missing Portrait of Hans Holbein: Crypt, Ancient Warriors (armor 2), Secret Password
** Ivory Hunting Horn of Roland: Tomb of the Headless Kings, King’s Storeroom, Quicksand Bog
Royal Torque of Queen Boadicea: Crypt, Chamber, Shrine
~ Lost Hornpipe of the Pirate Captain: Chamber, Ancient Warriors (armor 2), Ledges
~ Enormous Feather of the Me Linh: Tomb of the Headless Kings, Dark Forest (left tree), Ledges
Red Sash of Tokugawa Ieyasu: King's Storeroom, Secret Password, Quicksand Bog
** Broken Trident of Poseidon: perhaps the Dark Forest, Ancient Warriors, and King’s Storeroom?
** Lily-Crested Crown of Clovis I: Chamber, Shrine, either the Ledges or Secret Password
Mussel Shell Armor of Apanuugpak: Tomb of the Headless Kings, Dark Forest (left tree), Shrine
~ Metal Beard of the Egyptian Queen: Tomb of the Headless Kings, Dark Forest (right tree), Ledges
Mummified Hand of the Egyptian King: Tomb of the Headless Kings, Ancient Warriors (armor 2), Secret Password
Lost Taj Mahal Turban of Aurangzeb: Chamber, Shrine, Quicksand Bog
** Melted Head of Madame Tussaud: Chamber, Ancient Warriors (armor 2), either the Ledges or Secret Password
** Pearl Necklace of Gwalior: Chamber, Shrine, Ancient Warriors
Bullet-Riddled Handbag of Belle Boyd: Tomb of the Headless Kings, Dark Forest (right tree), Quicksand Bog
** Lost Whale Bone of Pytheas: Tomb of the Headless Kings, Shrine, Dark Forest (right tree)
Dried Ear of Corn of Sojourner Truth: Chamber, Ancient Warriors (armor 2), Dark Forest (left tree)
~ Jeweled Scabbard of Sforza: Crypt, Chamber, Ledges
~ Good-Luck Watch of Empress Eugenie: King's Storeroom, Shrine, Ledges
** Ruby Earring of Benzibab: Crypt, Tomb of the Headless Kings, King’s Storeroom
** Jewel-Encrusted Egg of Catherine the Great: Crypt, Tomb of the Headless Kings, Secret Password
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 04, 2013, 02:06:36 PM
It would make sense to start this thread at the beginning, with Blackbeard's Treasure Map.

Encountered Guards: Cave of Sighs
Number of Unencountered Guards: 2
Rooms Not Entered: Treasure Room, Shrine of the Silver Monkey, Pirate's Cove, Tomb of Ancient Kings, Swamp, Room of Harmonic Convergence

Notes: Past beliefs included that the team would have been lead from the Heart Room to the Room of Harmonic Convergence and along the bottom floor. Also note that during Olmec's temple overview, the block covering the ladder to the Dungeon in the Pirate's Cove is already up, and that the chest in the Treasure Room is closed.


My Thoughts: There are many possibilities about what the remainder of the intended path would have looked like. It is not known whether the stone wall would have broken down, giving direct access from the Tomb of Ancient Kings to the Dungeon, or if the team would have needed to go back up to the Shrine. Knowing what rooms the team would have needed to enter would make narrowing down the possible temple guard locations much easier. Still, I have some ideas that would eliminate a few rooms from consideration.

-- I don't believe the team would have been given access to the Treasure Room. The Heart Room did not open to the Treasure Room, and the treasure chest was closed, suggesting the team was not meant to go from the Swamp to the Treasure Room. Since that room was not intended to be entered, a temple guard would not have been stationed there.

-- Some people from the other thread believed that the piling of Styrofoam in the Swamp was indicative of a temple guard. The only reservation I have with that prediction is that the same piling was seen in "Ponce de Leon and the Lost Fountain of Youth," which was in the same temple layout (and most likely also the same production day), and there wasn't a guard in that room in that run. For that reason, I believe there was not a guard in the Swamp during Blackbeard's Treasure Map.

The remaining rooms (Harmonic Convergence, Tomb of Ancient Kings, Shrine, and Pirate's Cove) are all potential locations, depending on what doors were locked and unlocked. If I had to guess, I would say that one was in the Room of Harmonic Convergence, since that room held a guard 14 of 30 times (47%) in Season 1. The S1, L5 layout saw guards in the Room of Harmonic Convergence twice of the 4 times entered, so it wouldn't be an unreasonable guess. I don't have any way of reasonably eliminating or promoting any of the other rooms; the other guard could have been in any other the other rooms.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Viper on January 04, 2013, 03:17:19 PM
I think that the final guard was in the Tomb of the Ancient Kings. You know how the Season 1 producers love putting guards 1 room away from the artifact (or maybe they would've been forced up to the Shrine?).
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot319 on January 04, 2013, 03:52:53 PM
You're forgetting one thing PP4L. Sabrina actually did enter the Room of the Three Gargoyles.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 04, 2013, 05:28:12 PM
Yeah, Sabrina did enter both entrance rooms. I wouldn't worry about the "guards in both entrance rooms" for Season 1 either. The producers weren't that creative with their temple guard placement during that early in the show. But still, no harm in mentioning it I guess.

If I have to guess though, I say the two other temple guards were in the Room of Harmonic Convergence and Tomb of the Ancient Kings. This would make the layout similar to the temple guard placement for "The Keys to the Alhambra". I am not sure if the Stone Wall would've broken down though and force the team up into the Shrine. Too bad Sabrina was too stupid to make any real progress to find out what doors were unlockable.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 04, 2013, 06:01:36 PM
You're forgetting one thing PP4L. Sabrina actually did enter the Room of the Three Gargoyles.

Thanks for catching that.

I think that the final guard was in the Tomb of the Ancient Kings. You know how the Season 1 producers love putting guards 1 room away from the artifact (or maybe they would've been forced up to the Shrine?).

The Season 1 temple guard placements did usually have one in the room directly prior to the artifact. However, there were a number of episodes where this wasn't the case. And for "Blackbeard's Treasure Map," would the final room have been the Tomb of Ancient Kings, or would they have been forced up to the Shrine, making either that room or the Pirate's Cove the final room in the path? As much as I have a gut feeling that the two remaining guards were in the Tomb of Ancient Kings and Room of Harmonic Convergence, it is not guaranteed.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 04, 2013, 07:11:43 PM
Golden Cup of Belshazzar is another episode that began in S1, L1 and then had a run that was taped in S1, L5.

Encountered Guards: Cave of Sighs, Treasure Room
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms Not Entered: Pirate's Cove, Dungeon, Tomb of Ancient Kings, Swamp

Notes: Past beliefs included that the team should have been lead from the Treasure Room to the Swamp, since there was the sound effect upon opening the treasure chest. Also note that during Olmec's temple overview, the block covering the ladder to the Dungeon in the Pirate's Cove is already up, possibly suggesting that the team was supposed to go up from the bottom floor to the Pirate's Cove.

My Thoughts: This path, like the Blackbeard Treasure Map's run, is hard to discern. The Room of Harmonic Convergence appeared to be a dead end, and Sean made it seem as if there was no way out of the Treasure Room. I think that the team was meant to go down into the Swamp and then back up to the Shrine, similarly to the Broken Wing of Icarus path.

-- This team had 1.5 pendants. No one has yet been able to find the other half pendant in this run, but it was very common for the half pendant to be placed in the room directly prior to the room housing the final guard. If the half pendant is identified, that could help suggest where the final guard was.

-- The remaining guard could have very easily been in any of the unentered rooms. However, in the image below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf, there could be a temple guard behind the netting in the Swamp laying down with his head facing the back, left corner of the room. This photo was taken during Olmec's temple overview. I am skeptical myself, and perhaps my eyes are playing tricks on me, but it could be the final guard. Having the final guard being in the Swamp would slightly mimic the layout from "Silver Saddle Horn of Hannibal," so it would not be completely out of the ordinary to have the final guard in the Swamp.


Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 05, 2013, 12:47:25 PM
I'm going to finish the S1, L5 runs, so I'm going to skip ahead to the "Ponce de Leon and the Lost Fountain of Youth."

Encountered Guards: Observatory, Room of Harmonic Convergence
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Cave of Sighs

Since there was only one room not entered and one guard remaining, it should be obvious that the Cave of Sighs held the last guard. Also, during the prize announcement sequence, there is a brief moment where the Cave of Sighs is shown. It is partially cropped off and dark, but there is a faint glint below the lowest ledge in the Cave of Sighs, which I boxed in red, that I believe was the temple guard's headdress. Photo courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf.


Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 05, 2013, 02:42:26 PM
To continue with the S1, L5 episodes, next will be "Treasure Map of Jean Lafitte."

Encountered Guards: Room of Harmonic Convergence, Heart Room
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms Not Entered: Pirate's Cove, Dungeon, Tomb of Ancient Kings, Bottom Floor of Cave of Sighs

Notes: Past beliefs included that the team would have been given multiple open doors from the Shrine, allowing for a potentially avoidable guard in the Dungeon or Pirate's Cove. Some people believed that the final guard was in the Tomb of Ancient Kings, the room directly prior to the artifact.


My Thoughts: There are many things to consider about this run. First of all, this team earned 1.5 pendants, meaning that there was a half-pendant somewhere in the temple. The half pendant was usually located in the room directly next to the room with the final guard. I may have found the half pendant for this run, in the Room of the Harmonic Convergence. Photo courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf:




-- If that is the half pendant, then the team would have only come across it had both teammates taken the bottom floor path. In that case, they would have come across the two guards in the Room of Harmonic Convergence and the Heart Room. However, if both players took the upper path (like Teri-Kay did), then they would have bypassed the guard in the Room of Harmonic Convergence and would not have needed to find the half pendant. It is the same reasoning as was seen in the "Mummified Hand of the Egyptian King" run: the team only would have come across the half pendant in the Chamber of the Sacred Markers if both players began on the bottom of the central shaft. However, if both players went directly to the King's Storeroom, they would have bypassed both the half pendant and the Tomb of the Headless Kings guard.

-- There is a possibility that the final guard was in any of the unentered rooms: The Pirate's Cove, Dungeon, and Tomb of Ancient Kings. However, there is also a chance that the last guard was in the bottom of the Cave of Sighs. Neither player began by going straight into the Cave of Sighs, and there aren't any clear shots of the bottom of the Cave of Sighs, either during the temple rundown or the final credits. I think that the Cave of Sighs is still up for consideration.

-- If that is the half pendant and the half pendant was, indeed, one room prior to the final guard, then the last guard would have been in a room before the Heart Room. The only room that meets this qualification is the Cave of Sighs, since the team did not go into the lowest level of the Cave. It is possible that the Cave of Sighs guard only captured a contestant if they began by entering through the bottom of the room.

-- At the end of the run, when time ran out, the door from the Shrine of the Silver Monkey to the Tomb of Ancient Kings opened, suggesting that that shortcut would have been accessible. Also, during the credits, the middle golden door in the Tomb of Ancient Kings appears to have been slightly ajar. That could be a sign that a guard was there, albeit a very small chance.


Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 05, 2013, 05:44:14 PM
I definitely don't think the last guard was in the Cave of Sighs. We should've been able to see the half-pendant if that was the case, since that would've meant 3 guards into 4 rooms of the temple, similar to "The Treasure of Anne Bonny".

I think the last guard was in the Tomb of the Ancient Kings. It was there to create a "one room away" guard for the team like it did with the "Dragon Lady" run. So unless the second runner found the half-pendant, this run would've probably ended in triple capture.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 05, 2013, 05:58:42 PM
I definitely don't think the last guard was in the Cave of Sighs. We should've been able to see the half-pendant if that was the case, since that would've meant 3 guards into 4 rooms of the temple, similar to "The Treasure of Anne Bonny".

But then there was "Elizabeth I's Golden Ship", which featured three guards in four rooms. The half pendant wasn't in plain sight in that run either, although some people suppose it was on the floor of the Heart Room.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 06, 2013, 12:12:59 PM
To continue with S1, L5, next up is "Oracle Bowl of Delphi."

Encountered Guards: Room of the Three Gargoyles, Swamp
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Room not Entered: Heart Room, Treasure Room, Shrine of the Silver Monkey

Notes: There were several ideas given in the other topic about where the final guard was in this run. Some people suggested that the Heart Room would have served as a "double whammy," housing both a temple guard and a dead end. Other people believed that either the Shrine or the Treasure Room held the final guard.

My Thoughts: This team earned two pendants in the temple games, so there isn't a half pendant to help determine where the last guard was. Another thing to consider is that the guard in the Gargoyle Room was not forced, so it is not imperative that the remaining guard had to be avoidable also.

-- Aside from Olmec's temple rundown, there weren't any camera angles showing any of the rooms in question to help identify any idiosyncrasies that would point to where the final guard was.

-- There was a pattern to the temple guard placements in the Season 1 Observatory runs. Two of the other Observatory runs in Season 1 (Star of Sultan Saladin and Belly Button of Buddha) were solo victories that featured one encountered guard in the inner temple, one avoidable guard in an entrance room, and one avoidable guard in either the far left corner of the temple or in the Heart Room. Maybe, like these two runs, there were two avoidable guards in the Oracle Bowl of Delphi (entrance room and Heart Room), allowing for another potential solo victory. But then, there was also Alexander and the Gordian Knot, which featured two forced captures in the bottom floor. The last guard in this run was either in the other entrance room (avoidable), the Heart Room (avoidable), or the Treasure Room (forced). Perhaps, like the Gordian Knot layout, the Oracle Bowl of Delphi was structured to have two forced guards in the inner temple.

-- If you look at the other five episodes from the S1, L5 layout, all of the them featured two forced guards. In "Blackbeard's Treasure Map," the two remaining guards were most likely in the Room of Harmonic Convergence and either the Shrine or Tomb of Ancient Kings. In the "Golden Cup of Belshazzar," had the team needed to head down into the Swamp, then the Treasure Room guard and the final unencountered guard would both have been forced. In "Ponce de Leon and the Lost Fountain of Youth," the two encountered guards were forced. In the "Treasure Map of Jean Lafitte," the Heart Room guard was forced. The last guard was probably in one of the unentered rooms. In the "Paintbrush of Leonardo da Vinci," the Observatory guard was forced, and the last guard had to have been in one of the unentered rooms as well. Given the nature of these other episodes' temple guard placements, it seems as though the "Oracle Bowl of Delphi" guards would also be placed in a way where two guards were forced, since temple guard placements and path difficulties tended to be similar across the same production days.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on January 06, 2013, 03:48:22 PM
I always thought the third guard in the "Oracle Bowl of Delphi" run was in the Treasure Room. Since there were a lot of Season 1 runs where there was a temple guard placed one room away from the artifact.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 06, 2013, 04:25:23 PM
I always thought the third guard in the "Oracle Bowl of Delphi" run was in the Treasure Room. Since there were a lot of Season 1 runs where there was a temple guard placed one room away from the artifact.

That wouldn't surprise me. There were a number of episodes that featured guards together in the Swamp and Treasure Room spaces. If that placement held true in "Oracle Bowl," then that would satisfy both that pattern, as well as the "final guard one room away" pattern.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 06, 2013, 06:31:06 PM
I agree, the last temple guard had to be in the Treasure Room. It is only fitting for it to be one room away from the artifact, which always seemed like the case in Season 1. So it probably wouldn't have been a bad idea for the Purple Parrots to start off in the Gargoyle Room as it would've made a shorter path for the second runner to cover. But Jackie was pathetic, so it did no good at the end of the day.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 06, 2013, 09:49:26 PM
The last of the S1, L5 episodes is "Paintbrush of Leonardo da Vinci."

Encountered Guards: Swamp, Observatory
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Room not Entered: Treasure Room, Shrine, Pirate's Cove, Dungeon

Notes: Past beliefs included that the final guard would be in the Treasure Room or Shrine. Some people believed that the door would have opened from the Shrine to the Tomb of Ancient Kings, making a guard in the Pirate's Cove or Dungeon pointless.

My Thoughts: The Swamp was a dead-end that held a temple guard, which means that the last guard did not necessarily have to be avoidable.

-- I do not think that there would have been a guard in the Dungeon, since a player could quickly plow through the wall and grab the Paintbrush, thus making that last temple guard "mysteriously vanish."

-- The guard could have easily been in any of the other rooms, in my opinion. There was usually one guard in an entrance room or central shaft, one (or a second) in the central shaft, and one farther into the temple. However, since there wasn't a guard in either entrance room, the pattern does not hold.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 06, 2013, 11:16:58 PM
The "Leonardo Da Vinci" run is hard to determine where the last temple guard is due to the very reason you mentioned: the team did not make it far into the temple to tell where the other one could possibly be. One thing to note is that the Room of the Three Gargoyles DID unlock the door to the Observatory. However, Chris did not try all three tongues. I say the last guard in this run will be in the Shrine due to the fact that both "The Trojan Horseshoe" and "King Tut's Cobra Staff" were also Tomb of the Ancient King runs with guards in the Shrine. I don't think they would've used the Dungeon or Pirate's Cove either.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 07, 2013, 09:13:13 AM
The "Leonardo Da Vinci" run is hard to determine where the last temple guard is due to the very reason you mentioned: the team did not make it far into the temple to tell where the other one could possibly be. One thing to note is that the Room of the Three Gargoyles DID unlock the door to the Observatory. However, Chris did not try all three tongues. I say the last guard in this run will be in the Shrine due to the fact that both "The Trojan Horseshoe" and "King Tut's Cobra Staff" were also Tomb of the Ancient King runs with guards in the Shrine. I don't think they would've used the Dungeon or Pirate's Cove either.

Very good points. Even though both of the other runs you mentioned featured guards in the Heart Room and Shrine, it would make sense for the producers to place the guards in a similar arrangement for the other Tomb of Ancient Kings runs. And considering the fact that it was common for forced guards to be spaced an average of two rooms apart, that would place the last guard in the Shrine.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 07, 2013, 06:29:38 PM
Even though I've completed all of my notes from the S1, L5, please feel free to comment on previous episodes if something was overlooked or if you want to contribute something new about an episode.

Now, I'm going to go back to the episodes that were skipped over, starting with "Galileo's Cannonball."

Encountered Guards: Throne Room, Shrine of the Silver Monkey
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Room of the Three Gargoyles, Observatory, Tomb of Ancient Kings, Swamp

Notes: Past beliefs include that the last guard was located in either the Room of the Three Gargoyles or the Observatory. Additionally, it was brought up that the half pendant for this 1.5 pendant run was probably not in the treasure chest in the back of the Shrine of the Silver Monkey, even though some people insist that when Jammin' Jon went to the back of that room. The Shrine guard was most likely the final guard, so it would have been highly unlikely for the producers to expect the team to find the half pendant in the room with the temple guard before that guard captured the second runner.

My Thoughts: I agree that the half pendant was elsewhere in the temple, since the Shrine held the final temple guard en route to the artifact.

-- Neither the Swamp nor the Tomb of Ancient Kings were accessible during this run, so the other guard would not have been in either of these rooms. The Throne Room only led up to the Heart Room, the Golden Idols did not open down into the Swamp, and the Shrine did not lead down into the Tomb of Ancient Kings. This only leaves the Room of the Three Gargoyles and the Observatory as viable options.

-- The two guards that appeared during this run were the gold-masked and green-masked guards. The black-masked guard with the leopard-print shawl was the only guard remaining. Since the already-encountered gold-masked guard was always the one stationed in the Observatory, and the black-masked guard was always the one stationed in the upper entrance room, I believe the last guard was in the Room of the Three Gargoyles. This placement also makes sense, since there was no headdress peeking out from behind the Observatory wall during Olmec's temple rundown. In addition, it was very common for one guard to be in an entrance room, one in the central shaft, and one in the inner temple.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 07, 2013, 10:57:18 PM
I agree with the last guard being in the Room of the Three Gargoyles and here is why:

I believe that there should almost always be one path in the temple where all three temple guards will be encountered. There shouldn't be two deviating paths where the team only has a chance to really encounter 2/3 guards. It wouldn't make sense for the guard to be in the Observatory because it would be a useless detour for the team. The Room of Three Gargoyles makes more sense because that involves a path where all three guards have a chance of actually being encountered. And I also don't think Jammin John found the half-pendant in the Shrine either because that had to be the last temple guard that could be encountered. That was some age old theory made by TMH who thought he saw John take a half-pendant out of the Treasure box. Why John went to that Treasure box in the first place is unclear, but it was the first temple run ever, so it is to be expected for the teams to be a little more confused.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 07, 2013, 11:23:06 PM
I believe that there should almost always be one path in the temple where all three temple guards will be encountered. There shouldn't be two deviating paths where the team only has a chance to really encounter 2/3 guards. It wouldn't make sense for the guard to be in the Observatory because it would be a useless detour for the team. The Room of Three Gargoyles makes more sense because that involves a path where all three guards have a chance of actually being encountered.

You should also consider that there were a number of episodes, though, where the third guard was in a "useless detour" room. Some of the first runs of this type to come to mind include "Upside-Down Compass of Henry Hudson," "Thornwood Gavel of Judge Roy Bean," "Treasure Map of Jean Lafitte," and quite possibly "Priceless Portrait of the Polynesian Girl."

In Henry Hudson, Sherra went from the Chamber of the Sacred Markers to the King's Storeroom. When Derek followed her path, he bypassed the King's Storeroom completely, instead directly heading into the Room of the Ancient Warriors. It would only make sense that the King's Storeroom would have led the team down to the Room of the Ancient Warriors, rather than being a dead-end.

In Thornwood Gavel, Mike took the lower route through the Headless Kings and Chamber. Kelli decided to go up to the King's Storeroom instead of following her partner's path, and ended up encountering a guard there. Her path eventually met up with Mike's in the Room of the Ancient Warriors. But even so, that final guard was completely avoidable and was on a path which diverged from her partner's and then merged back with it later on.

A similar convergent path occurred in "Treasure Map of Jean Lafitte," although the temple guard placement for this run was a bit more ambiguous. Aaron (reluctantly) took the lower route, encountering guards in both the Throne Room and Heart Room. When Teri-Kay entered the temple, she went into the Observatory, which converged with Aaron's path in the Heart Room. Regardless of where the last guard was, the Throne Room guard could have been avoidable if both members of this team took the Observatory/Heart Room path. This run would have featured a path where there was a divergent/ convergent path, where taking one of the routes would have only forced the team to encounter two of the three guards.

Depending on how the doors were configured in the Priceless Portrait run, it is very possible that the team could have bypassed the Observatory guard or the Mandarin Hand guard. It was very common throughout Seasons 1 and 2 for the "triangular loop to nowhere" to all be unlocked, sometimes sending teams around in circles. If this configuration was present in Priceless Portrait, then Kristen could have gone into the Mandarin Hand and directly into the King's Storeroom, avoiding the Observatory and the guard there.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 07, 2013, 11:48:13 PM
I was thinking about how temple guard locations and half pendant placements are strongly related, and hopefully we can use this thread to hone in on some of the "missing" half pendant locations, based on our assessments of where the temple guards were.

The location of the half pendant in the "Galileo's Cannonball" has not yet been identified. It is possible that the half pendant was in the Room of the Golden Idols, since that would have been the room directly prior to the final guard. There was a strong tendency in Season 1 for the half pendant to be placed that way.

To go off of this idea, I believe that the half pendant could have been on the actuator from the Golden Idols to the Shrine. There is never a clear shot of that actuator, either during the temple overview or the run itself. The half pendant was placed in that location a number of times during the first season, and even once during Season 2. It wouldn't surprise me if the half pendant was on that actuator, especially since the half pendant is not clearly visible anywhere else. It would also be easy to explain why Jammin' Jon passed by the half pendant if it had been there, as the half pendant was passed up in every run where it was placed on that actuator.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 08, 2013, 04:12:34 PM
To finish S1, L1, I'm going to move on to "Wild Bill Hickok and the Dead Man's Hand."

Encountered Guards: Cave of Sighs, Heart Room, Swamp
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

All of the guards were encountered, so there should not any mysteries about where they were located.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 08, 2013, 04:25:06 PM
It's time to move on to S1, L2. I'm going to begin with "John Henry's Lost Hammer."

Encountered Guards: Heart Room, Throne Room
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Cave of Sighs, Observatory, Torch Room, Shrine

Notes: Past comments included that the final guard can be seen in the Cave of Sighs during the final credits. I agree that the final guard was there, and I have added a photo of the Cave of Sighs during the credits. The guard's golden necklace is quite apparent, but just to prominently identify the guard, I have outlined him in red. Photo courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf.


Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 08, 2013, 04:47:46 PM
I agree, the Lost Hammer guard had to be in the Cave of Sighs. That picture is enough proof for me to show that he was located there. Also, if you look at the other temple layouts that day, most of the temple guards were near the entrance of the temple. So there weren't many guards placed deep in the temple during that entire production.

And slightly off topic from "Lost Hammer", but I am pretty sure the Jean Lafitte team had at least one path where all three temple guards could be encountered. If the the team started in the Cave of Sighs and continued on the bottom floor, they would've probably encountered all three guards: Harmonic Convergence, Heart Room, and wherever the last guard was. ;)
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 08, 2013, 05:10:12 PM
And slightly off topic from "Lost Hammer", but I am pretty sure the Jean Lafitte team had at least one path where all three temple guards could be encountered. If the the team started in the Cave of Sighs and continued on the bottom floor, they would've probably encountered all three guards: Harmonic Convergence, Heart Room, and wherever the last guard was. ;)

That absolutely makes sense, and I agree with you for the "Jean Lafitte" episode. I was just clarifying that there were quite a few episodes where your statement about "having all three guards on the path" did not hold true. I wanted to state that it was not always necessary for that statement to be upheld, so that all of the locations for unencountered temple guards in future episodes would be considered.  ;)
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 08, 2013, 10:34:16 PM
Next on the list is everyone's favorite, "Golden Cricket Cage of Khan." It was going to come up eventually, and here it is.  :P

Encountered Guards: Throne Room, Heart Room
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Room of the Three Gargoyles, Observatory, Room of the Golden Idols, Shrine of the Silver Monkey, Torch Room, Mineshaft, Tomb of Ancient Kings

Notes: In the past, people believed that there were too many unentered rooms to make a reasonable guess as to where the final guard was. One person proposed that the path would have sent the team up to the Observatory and around the horn. The possible rooms were narrowed down to the Room of the Golden Idols or Shrine because the other episodes in this layout featured guards close to the entrance, or the Tomb of Ancient Kings because of it being the last room before the artifact.

My Thoughts: The Throne Room guard could have been avoided, since the team was given access straight from the Wall Climb to the Heart Room. Therefore, the last guard could have been a forced guard.

-- I agree that the team made too little progress to make a good assessment of where the last guard was. However, it would be smart to use what we know about the other episodes from that day (John Henry's Lost Hammer, Elizabeth I's Golden Ship, and John Sutter and the Map to the Lost Goldmine) and extrapolate that information to determine where the last guard probably would have been located. All of the guards in the other three episodes from that production day were stationed toward the outer part of the temple. For that reason, it seems unlikely for the last guard in the "Cricket Cage" run to have been in the Torch Room, Mineshaft, or Tomb of Ancient Kings.

-- During Olmec's temple rundown, there isn't a headdress peeking out from behind the Observatory wall, so I don't think there was a guard stationed there. That leaves the Room of the Three Gargoyles, Room of the Golden Idols, and the Shrine. Honestly, any of these rooms seem like reasonable guesses as to where the last guard was.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on January 09, 2013, 12:45:01 AM
I always thought the third guard in "Cricket Cage" was in the Tomb of the Ancient Kings. For once again, the "one room away" trick.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 09, 2013, 11:24:45 AM
I always thought the third guard in "Cricket Cage" was in the Tomb of the Ancient Kings. For once again, the "one room away" trick.

While that is a possibility, I have a little hesitancy about saying the last guard was there because all of the guards from the other episodes that day were stationed near the entrance of the temple.

And in all honesty, in how many Season 1 episodes was the final guard one room away from the artifact? It happened a few times, but I don't think it happened as often as we've been making it out to be.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 09, 2013, 11:42:30 AM
Here are one room away guards from the top of my head:

Great Seal
Magellan
Amelia Earhart
Buddha
Gordian Knot
Sir Edmund Hillary (close enough anyways)
Atahualpa
Mata Hari
Blue Pearl

I am pretty sure there were one room away guards in "Oracle Bowl" and "Joan of Arc" too. So yeah, it did occur quite a few times in S1 and maybe even more than we can consider. It's hard to tell where the last guard in "Golden Cricket Cage" was because John and Tia were too stupid and hardly made any progress. If one could find the half-pendant, that might help out.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on January 09, 2013, 03:37:10 PM
Also, Ponce de Leon had a one room away guard. It probably happened more times in Season 1, but the contestants never encountered those guards.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 09, 2013, 03:54:34 PM
Here are one room away guards from the top of my head:

Great Seal
Magellan
Amelia Earhart
Buddha
Gordian Knot
Sir Edmund Hillary (close enough anyways)
Atahualpa
Mata Hari
Blue Pearl

Also, Ponce de Leon had a one room away guard. It probably happened more times in Season 1, but the contestants never encountered those guards.

Wow, the "one room away" guard happened more frequently than I thought in Season 1. I guess it would make sense, then, for some of the other unencoutered guards in Season 1 to have been stationed one room away from the artifacts in their respective episodes as well.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 09, 2013, 05:41:33 PM
To finish S1, L2, next up are "Elizabeth I's Golden Ship" and "John Sutter and the Map to the Lost Goldmine."

Elizabeth I's Golden Ship
Encountered Guards: Cave of Sighs, Heart Room, Room of the Golden Idols
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

John Sutter and the Map to the Lost Goldmine
Encountered Guards: Cave of Sighs, Throne Room, Room of the Golden Idols
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 10, 2013, 10:59:56 PM
To start off S1, L3, let's look at "Star of Sultan Saladin."

Encountered Guards: Tomb of Ancient Kings
Number of Unencountered Guards: 2
Rooms not Entered: Heart Room, Pirate's Cove, Cave of Sighs

Notes: Past comments said that one of the two remaining guards was undoubtedly in the Cave of Sighs. I have provided a photo below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf. There shouldn't be a need to identify the guard; it is hopefully very apparent. The other unencountered guard was either in the Pirate's Cove or Heart Room, either of which would have been an unnecessary room to enter. All of the past comments stated that the final guard was probably in the Heart Room, considering how often there was a guard in that room, especially as a dead end.




My Thoughts: There was, without question, a guard in the Cave of Sighs in this run. The other guard could have been in either of the other unentered rooms. If I had to guess which one, I would say the Heart Room seemed more likely, since other runs, such as the "Man in the Iron Mask," featured a dead-end Center of the Room with a guard. Having the guard in the Heart Room would also satisfy the "entrance room, central shaft, inner temple" pattern that was so common in Season 1.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 11, 2013, 12:37:31 AM
Yeah, I think the last guard was in the Heart Room. It seemed like a useless detour room for me where Leah could've entered it from the Wall Climb and then be forced down into the Throne Room. I don't see the Pirate's Cove being a possibility as it would've been easier to put the guard in the Dungeon if they really wanted the team to encounter him. Plus, the Heart Room was used a lot for temple guard encounters in S1.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 12, 2013, 12:15:31 AM
Let's continue on with "The Keys to the Alhambra."

Encountered Guards: Throne Room, Tomb of Ancient Kings
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Room of the Three Gargoyles, Observatory, Treasure Room, Shrine, Pirate's Cove

Notes: In the previous thread, there were conflicting ideas about where the final guard was in this run. One past suggestion was that the final guard was on the top floor of the inner temple, in either the Shrine or Pirate's Cove. Other people rebutted, pointing out that this was a 1 pendant run, which meant that one guard had to have been avoidable. If the last guard was in either the Shrine or Pirate's Cove, then all three guards would have been forced encounters. Instead, they suggested that the final guard may have been in the Gargoyle Room.

My Thoughts: I agree that one of the guards had to have been avoidable. One thing worth mentioning is that the remaining guard was the black-masked one with the leopard-print shawl. In the first thirteen episodes (before the Dungeon incident), he was always the one stationed in the Room of the Three Gargoyles and Heart Room, if a guard was stationed in that room. He was also sometimes stationed in the Shrine. Given this information, it would make sense that the unencountered guard would have been in one of those two rooms.

-- There is one major deciding factor that would ultimately determine where the last guard was: the path. The biggest question I have is, which path was the team supposed to take? The golden door from the Tomb of Ancient Kings to the Shrine opened after the temple guard appeared, but was it supposed to open?

-- In the event that the team was supposed to head from the Tomb to the Shrine, then the Shrine would have been part of the forced path. The last guard could not have been in the Shrine, since that would have made all three guards forced. If this was the intended path, then the Heart Room would have only led back down into the Throne Room, like the "Butch Cassidy" path. In that case, the last guard would have been in the Room of the Three Gargoyles.

-- It is also possible that the Tomb of Ancient Kings was a dead end, as evidence of the lack of a sound effect when Lisa placed the key on the magnet in the room. Even when doors were previously opened in other runs, they still played sound effects when players tried the actuators. The Heart Room may have led up to the Observatory (the Treasure Room did not open when Lisa tried it, but she never tried to go up) and then across the top floor, like the "Paintbrush of Leonardo da Vinci" and "Leif Erikson" runs. If this was the case, then the Tomb of Ancient Kings guard would have been avoidable, meaning the last guard could have been in either the Room of the Three Gargoyles or the Shrine.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 12, 2013, 12:49:11 AM
I actually think the Tomb-Shrine path was the route that the team should've taken. So even though Steve did beeline for the artifact, I think the Red Jaguars were suppose to go that way. I don't think the Tomb of the Ancient Kings was a dead end because that would've been pretty much been a two room dead end. I don't remember any other temple run where two rooms were on a dead end path. Unless the Spider's Lair opened up to the Room of the Golden Idols, which I doubt because 1.) those doors never seemed to open in season one and 2.) it would've been hard to climb the webbing anyways.

I think the last guard was in the Room of the Three Gargoyles. It definitely wouldn't be in the Shrine or Pirate's Cove because one guard had to be avoidable.  So the Gargoyle Room made the most sense.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 12, 2013, 10:03:48 AM
I don't think the Tomb of the Ancient Kings was a dead end because that would've been pretty much been a two room dead end. I don't remember any other temple run where two rooms were on a dead end path.

There are a few episodes in Season 1 with multiple-room dead ends that come to mind. "Golden Cup of Belshazzar" had a dead end in the Wheel Room/Harmonic Convergence. The "Golden Chains of Zenobia" and "Silver Saddle Horn of Hannibal" runs featured a three-room-long dead end with the Heart Room/Treasure Room/Observatory. Then, from the other seasons, there was also the "Golden Stallion of Ali Baba," which had a dead-end upper central shaft, and "Bifocal Monocle of One-Eyed Jack," which had a dead-end Ancient Warriors/King's Storeroom.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 12, 2013, 01:11:16 PM
The Heart Room and Observatory were definitely not dead ends in "Zenobia". The team was suppose to take the Observatory and Heart Room enroute to the artifact. Justin was too stupid to realize that he could go down from the Heart Room, the intended path during that temple run. So that is the reason why the team really lost.

The same thing for the "Silver Saddle Horn" run. The Heart Room and Observatory were an alternate path from the Gargoyle Room that the team would take if they started at the top of the temple. The Treasure Room was the only real dead end room in both runs since it did not add any additional progress for either team and was not an alternate path. Although I am not sure why the treasure chest didn't work when it should in this sitation.

I guess you can call the "Ali Baba" central shaft detour a dead end. I am not sure that once again the producers were trying to make an alternate path out of it if the team chose to start at the top of the central shaft. This path reminds me more of "The Silk Sash of Mulan" where it would've been easier just to go through the bottom floor.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 12, 2013, 06:42:09 PM
The Heart Room and Observatory were definitely not dead ends in "Zenobia". The team was suppose to take the Observatory and Heart Room enroute to the artifact. Justin was too stupid to realize that he could go down from the Heart Room, the intended path during that temple run. So that is the reason why the team really lost.

The same thing for the "Silver Saddle Horn" run. The Heart Room and Observatory were an alternate path from the Gargoyle Room that the team would take if they started at the top of the temple. The Treasure Room was the only real dead end room in both runs since it did not add any additional progress for either team and was not an alternate path. Although I am not sure why the treasure chest didn't work when it should in this sitation.

I guess you can call the "Ali Baba" central shaft detour a dead end. I am not sure that once again the producers were trying to make an alternate path out of it if the team chose to start at the top of the central shaft. This path reminds me more of "The Silk Sash of Mulan" where it would've been easier just to go through the bottom floor.

I understand that the central shaft in "Zenobia" and "Saddle Horn" acted as a path if the team began on the upper floor. But when I called them dead-ends, I meant that, with the paths the teams took, going up the central shaft brought them out of the way and into the "triangle to nowhere." There was no way out besides back to the bottom of the central shaft and across the bottom floor. So for all intent and purpose, the Observatory, Heart Room, and Treasure Room acted as excessive, unnecessary rooms.

The same thing could be said about Eusinia going into the Throne Room during "King Tut's Cobra Staff." Had she begun on the bottom floor, the path would have forced her from the Wheel Room to the Throne Room, and then to the Heart Room; but with the path she actually took, the Throne Room was a dead-end that only would have led away from the artifact.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 13, 2013, 10:14:13 AM
Next on the list is the "Helmet of Genghis Khan."

Encountered Guards: Cave of Sighs, Shrine of the Silver Monkey
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Heart Room, Throne Room, Spider's Lair, Tomb of Ancient Kings, Dungeon

Notes: Past beliefs were that the final guard was in either the Heart Room or Throne Room, since there was usually at least one guard in the central shaft. Many people were leaning toward the Throne Room, in case the team took the popular lowest route out of the Wall Climb.

My Thoughts: I agree that the final guard was in the central shaft, but I believe the guard was in the Heart Room.

-- The Spider's Lair did not appear to have a headdress peeking out from the Styrofoam blocks, and neither the Tomb of Ancient Kings or the Dungeon opened down from the Shrine. Additionally, the block between the Pirate's Cove and Dungeon was lowered, further suggesting that the team was not able to enter the bottom floor. The only rooms left as options become the Heart Room and Throne Room.

-- The only guard not encountered was the black-masked guard with the leopard-skin shawl. As I have mentioned in this thread, that guard was always stationed in the Room of the Three Gargoyles and Heart Room, and was sometimes stationed in the Shrine. The Throne Room usually was protected by the gold-masked guard, and was sometimes guarded by the green-masked guard if the gold-masked guard was in the Cave of Sighs. Since the black-masked guard never guarded the Throne Room, that only leaves the Heart Room as an unentered room. Since that guard was the one usually stationed there, it makes even more sense for the last guard to have been in there.

-- Additionally, I couldn't tell if the Heart Room opened from the Observatory, but having that doorway open with an avoidable guard in the Heart Room/Room of Fallen Columns/Medusa's Lair occurred a few times in Seasons 1 and 2. It would not be out of the question for that path configuration to happen again.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 13, 2013, 10:52:48 AM
Next is the "Trojan Horseshoe."

Encountered Guards: Heart Room, Shrine
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Room of the Three Gargoyles, Observatory, Spider's Lair, Throne Room

Notes: Past comments noted that the last guard was spotted in the Spider's Lair. A supplemental photo is below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf.

My Thoughts: I agree that the temple guard was in that room. My only question is, how would the team have entered that room, since the Throne Room didn't open from the Wall Climb?






And to finish S1, L3, last up is "Pendant of Kamehameha."

Encountered Guards: Throne Room, Heart Room, Dungeon
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

All of the guards were encountered. There isn't any question of where they were.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Ancient Warrior on January 13, 2013, 03:39:38 PM
Well, there's two possibilities, but both would involve switching from the upper floor to the lower floor.  In fact, maybe the entire block of the Heart Room, the Throne Room, the Spider's Lair and the Room of the Golden Idols was interconnected.

What makes the most sense for me is for the producers to have expected the team in "The Trojan Horseshoe" to try to stick to the low road for as much as possible.  So when the Wall Climb-Throne Room door didn't open, they might instead climb down into the Throne from the Heart Room, then Lucretia would be taken out in the Spider's Lair and then Shawn would've climbed up to the Room of the Golden Idols and gotten captured in the Shrine.  It seems a little more likely than the producers banking on the team trying to hug an idol, because if they wanted that to happen, they should've made that the only objective of that room in the first place.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 13, 2013, 05:55:03 PM
Onto S1, L4! First up is "Lost Logbooks of Magellan."

Encountered Guards: Room of Harmonic Convergence, Heart Room, Pirate's Cove
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

All three guards were encountered in this run, so there shouldn't be any question of where they were.  ;)  This is also the only episode where a guard was encountered in the Pirate's Cove space during Season 1.


On a side note regarding this run: Was the Room of Harmonic Convergence really a dead end? I don't think it necessarily was. I believe the door leading up to the Heart Room should have opened, but didn't. Robert didn't exactly step down very forcefully on the markers on the right/back side of the room. Kirk even said, "The door opens!" when he passed over that combination, and when Kirk realized that the doors were still locked, he told Robert to try the markers again. Lastly, I believe the half-pendant was on the floor of the Harmonic Convergence. The four photos below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf, all show a small, shiny object on the floor. The two top images and the lower left image were from when Robert was in the room, and the final image was during Jessica's time in that room. I don't believe that object was a Styrofoam pellet from the Wall Climb. If that really is the half pendant, then the only reason it would have been in the Harmonic Convergence was if it was meant to be (or could have been) part of the path. As with many episodes, the Harmonic Convergence guard was avoidable because the door from the Wall Climb also opned directly into the Heart Room.


Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 13, 2013, 05:59:08 PM
Yeah, it is possible that the Heart Room lead down to the Throne Room in "The Trojan Horseshoe". Either that, or the Golden Idols could've lead down to the Spider's Lair also. I think it is a good thing the Green Monkeys didn't go down into that room because it would've been hard to climb up the webbing. Just look how Billy from "Lost Hammer" struggled to climb to the top of the web. It was to thin really to make it up far.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 13, 2013, 06:52:06 PM
Next on the list is "Moccasins of Geronimo."

Encountered Guards: Observatory
Number of Unencountered Guards: 2
Rooms not Entered: Room of the Three Gargoyles, Heart Room, Shrine, Room of Harmonic Convergence

Notes: There are several reasons why any of the remaining rooms could have held the two remaining guards. Some people say that the Room of Three Gargoyles could have had a guard because the temple guard door was slightly ajar during Olmec's temple rundown. A photo is accompanied below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf. Some people think either the Heart Room or Room of Harmonic Convergence had a guard because guards were common in those rooms. Other people believe the Shrine held a guard because the room was directly next to the room with the artifact.




My Thoughts: All of the rooms appear to be good possibilities because all of the explanations seem legitimate. It would be nice to know where the half pendant was in this run, because that would help point to where the guards were. Even without the half pendant, I have made some deductions about the run, and the most logical places for the last two guards to have been are the Gargoyles and Heart Room.

-- I agree that the cracked door in the Gargoyle Room is a hint that there was most likely a guard in that room. In a few other episodes, cracked doors are seen during Olmec's rundown that held guards during the run.

-- When Mitchell spun the sundial in the Observatory, there were a number of sound effects going off at once. The temple guard theme was playing, and the noises for the opening door(s) also played at the same time. It is hard to discern, but I believe there were two door sound effects- one for the Heart Room and one for the Treasure Room. If both of those sound effects played, that meant the Heart Room easily could have held a guard while being an extra room to enter en route to the Treasure Room (similarly to "Electrified Key of Benjamin Franklin," among many others).

-- Unlike most people, I don't think there was a guard in the Shrine, and here is why:
One important note about this run is that during Olmec's temple rundown, the block between the Pirate's Cove and the Dungeon was already up. This may suggest that, if Mitchell had gone into the Shrine, the only door that would have opened would have been the one that led down (like in "Edmund Hillary" and "Mush Pot Hat"). The Shine, therefore, would not have been the room directly prior to the one with the artifact. Also, I'm not 100% sold on the idea that the Treasure Room would have led to the Shrine, because it seems unlikely for the path to have diverged between the Shrine/Dungeon and Swamp/Tomb/Dungeon. For that reason, I am hesitant to believe there was a guard in the Shrine.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 13, 2013, 11:57:24 PM
Yeah, I think one of the guards was in the Gargoyle Room. The reason the door is slightly cracked because it might've been hard to open that door in Season 1. Plus, the other temple runs that day (minus "Magellan") all had temple guards in the entrance room.

It is kind of hard to pinpoint where that last guard is though. But I have to say that the Shrine does seem like a logical spot. It fits the "one room away" guard criteria for Season One pretty much. Plus, it would be silly to put it in one of the other central shaft rooms when the Observatory already held one. I mean if Mitchell started in the Room of Harmonic Convergence, would they force him up the central shaft and then make him switch floors again? So maybe in a way taking the Treasure chest was more beneficial to Mitchell because I do think the last guard would've been in the Shrine.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 14, 2013, 12:08:20 AM
Yeah, I think one of the guards was in the Gargoyle Room. The reason the door is slightly cracked because it might've been hard to open that door in Season 1. Plus, the other temple runs that day (minus "Magellan") all had temple guards in the entrance room.

It is kind of hard to pinpoint where that last guard is though. But I have to say that the Shrine does seem like a logical spot. It fits the "one room away" guard criteria for Season One pretty much. Plus, it would be silly to put it in one of the other central shaft rooms when the Observatory already held one. I mean if Mitchell started in the Room of Harmonic Convergence, would they force him up the central shaft and then make him switch floors again? So maybe in a way taking the Treasure chest was more beneficial to Mitchell because I do think the last guard would've been in the Shrine.

Having the guards in the Gargoyle Room, Observatory, and Heart Room would mimic the temple guard placement from "Priceless Portrait." There were also many variations of that placement, such as with "Sacred Ring." Even though both of those examples are from Season 2, there were other instances from Season 1 where an avoidable guard was stationed in the Heart Room.

Also, perhaps the Room of Harmonic Convergence was locked, and the only way out of the Wall Climb was either by climbing into the Observatory or Heart Room. That would have required as much floor-switching as the path Mitchell took. And although all of the other S1, L4 paths featured two early guards and one guard in the room directly prior to the artifact, the last "Moccasins" guard could not have been one room away because the last room was the Dungeon, which we know did not hold a guard.

There were several Season 1 episodes where all of the guards were in the early temple; maybe this was another such episode. I know the paths and temple guard placements were generally similar across a production day, but every other run from the "Moccasins" day featured a guard in the Heart Room (either encountered- "Magellan" and "Great Seal"- or had to have been there-"Lucky Pig").
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 14, 2013, 12:27:26 AM
To finish the S1, L4 day, I'm going to do both "Henry VIII's Great Seal" and "Lucky Pig of Amelia Earhart."

Henry VIII's Great Seal:

Encountered Guards: Cave of Sighs, Heart Room, Tomb of Ancient Kings
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

All of the guards were encountered in the "Great Seal" run. There shouldn't be any question of where they were.


Lucky Pig of Amelia Earhart:

Encountered Guards: Observatory, Swamp
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Cave of Sighs, Heart Room

Notes: Past beliefs included that the final guard was in the Heart Room because it would have been too brutal to put the other guard in the other entrance room. There was "99% confidence" that the producers would not have forced such a difficult layout, but everyone was hesitant to believe there would not have been two guards in two entrance rooms. No one could totally commit to having the guard in the Heart Room.

My Thoughts: I'd like to definitively point out the fact that the Cave of Sighs did not have a guard, since the bottom of the Cave could be seen during the credits. The image below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf, clearly shows that there wasn't a thick blue mat on the floor. There was always a mat on the floor in the Cave of Sighs when a guard was located there. By default, the last guard must have been in the only other unentered room, the Heart Room.


Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 14, 2013, 11:10:31 AM
I'm going to jump back ahead to our next set of episodes: S1, L6. First up is "Golden Chains of Zenobia."

Encountered Guards: Cave of Sighs, Treasure Room
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Well, Room of Three Torches

Notes: It is undeniable that one of the leftmost rooms held the final guard. However, only one guard was encountered in each of those spaces throughout the entire first season, so it makes it hard to determine which room held the final guard. Some people think the Well/Shrine door would have opened because so many rooms had already been entered, making a guard in the Well more probable than in the Torch Room. Other people believe the door from the Tomb of Ancient Kings would have led directly up to the Shrine because the path was already so long, making the final guard- regardless of which room it was in- completely avoidable.

My Thoughts: Neither contestant tried the upper crawl tube door from the Cave of Sighs to the Wheel Room, and the Room of Harmonic Convergence opened up backwards into the Wheel Room. I believe this team could have gone straight across the bottom floor without getting caught up in the "triangle to nowhere." If so, this team would have only needed to clear between five and seven rooms, depending on which door(s) gave access to the Shrine.

-- When Justin placed the key on the golden door after time ran out, the door did not open. Even though time had already expired, I think that door would have opened, had it been unlocked.  For this reason, I am very hesitant to believe the Tomb of Ancient Kings would have led directly to the Shrine.

-- The Well door might have led to the Shrine, but I am also a bit unsure of that shortcut as well, simply because of the short length of the possible path straight along the bottom floor. That being said, I think the guard was probably in the Well because of the way the temple layout and other guards were laid out.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 14, 2013, 11:57:48 AM
I say the last guard in "Zenobia" was in the Well and I think the team would've been forced into that room anyways from the Tomb as it seemed like the Tomb-Shrine door was locked. Since the Cave of Sighs and Treasure Room guards were avoidable, I felt that at least one guard should've been forced. The Well makes perfect sense since the team was forced into that room either way.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 14, 2013, 03:54:41 PM
The next episode is "Belly Button of Buddha."

Encountered Guards: Treasure Room
Number of Unencountered Guards: 2
Rooms not Entered: Room of the Three Gargoyles, Heart Room, The Well

Notes: Everyone seemed to believe one of the guards was in the Gargoyle Room. It was common in Season 1 for one of the guards to be in an entrance room. Some people thought the other guard was in the Heart Room, to create a double trap if the team went up from the Room of Harmonic Convergence. Others believed the last guard was in the Well, since it would have been superfluous to put a guard in both the Heart Room and Treasure Room.

My Thoughts: The only guard encountered was the black-masked guard with the leopard-print shawl. Since he was the only one ever stationed in the Gargoyle Room, I believe the two remaining guards were in the Heart Room and Well. The gold-masked guard was sometimes stationed in the Heart Room, and the green-masked guard was stationed virtually everywhere in the temple at one time or another, so he very easily could have been in the Well.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 15, 2013, 10:14:27 AM
"Stolen Arm of Shiva" is up, and "Stone Marker of Leif Erikson" is on deck.

Encountered Guards: Cave of Sighs, Observatory
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Room of the Three Gargoyles, Room of Three Torches, Well, Tomb of Ancient Kings

Notes: Since Evan found the half pendant in the Shrine, the last guard had to have been beyond this point, eliminating the Gargoyle Room from contention. Most people believed the guard was in the Tomb of Ancient Kings because it would have been a "one room away" guard. Other people wanted to be cautious and also consider the Well.

My Thoughts: After the delayed guard coming out of the Dungeon during the "Kamehameha" run, I doubt the producers would have stationed another guard in that space with the team going through the temple counterclockwise.

-- And while it wouldn't surprise me to have the guard one room away from the artifact in the Tomb of Ancient Kings, why was the Torch Room so quickly eliminated as a possible room? It was common practice in Season 1 for the half pendant to be located in the room directly next to the room with the final guard. There were not that many Season 1 episodes where the door leading down from the Shrine to either the Well or Tomb of Ancient Kings opened directly, so the next room was most likely the Torch Room.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 15, 2013, 03:23:52 PM
I am going with the Tomb of the Ancient Kings for this one. It will only be fitting for the temple guard to be one room away. It depends though which path the producers forced the Orange Iguanas to take. If they let the Ancient Kings door open from the Shrine, then I definitely see the last temple guard being in the Tomb. If they only opened the Torch Room. then it is more possible that the temple guard was in one of the far left rooms.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 15, 2013, 05:48:14 PM
Next is the "Stone Marker of Leif Erikson."

Encountered Guards: Bamboo Forest, Observatory
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Treasure Room, Shrine, Room of Three Torches, Well

Notes: This team's path and known temple guard placements are identical to the "Paintbrush of Leonardo da Vinci" run. People thought the last temple guard would not match in both episodes, or it would be too "suspicious" on the producers' part. Some people proposed the last guard was more likely to be in the Treasure Room or Shrine over the Torch Room or Well, though there was no explanation behind their rationale.

My Thoughts: While the prizes were being announced, the camera's shot of the Cave of Sighs showed that there was no guard at the bottom of the room.

-- It would be nice to know where the half pendant was, because that may point to where the final guard was. Since the half pendant did not seem to be in any of the rooms Keeley entered, including the Observatory, I don't believe the guard was in the Treasure Room.

-- The bucket in the Well was up in the Room of Three Torches during Olmec's temple rundown, which suggests the team would have been forced all the way around the horn to reach the Tomb of Ancient Kings. For this reason, the temple guard could have been in any of the rooms, since they would have all been entered. At the same time, though, I don't think the guard would have been in the Well. As I mentioned previously, I don't think the production team would have put a guard in the Dungeon space for the Season 1 counterclockwise runs after the delayed guard incident from the "Pendant of Kamehameha" run.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 15, 2013, 08:25:06 PM
It is hard to tell where that last temple guard in "Stone Marker" is. Like the "Leonardo Da Vinci" run, the team did not make it far enough to tell where it could be. But good observation on the Well -- I do believe that the producers left it up expecting the Red Jaguars to ride it down to the Well. So in this case, I can see a temple guard being in the Torch Room for once. So I am going to guess the last guard was in the Shrine or Torch Room. I don't think it was the Well either for the same reason you listed.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 15, 2013, 11:01:24 PM
To finish S1, L6, let's look at "Helmet of Joan of Arc."

Encountered Guards: Room of the Three Gargoyles, Room of Harmonic Convergence
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Treasure Room, Observatory

Notes: Everyone in the other topic seemed to think that the final guard was in the Treasure Room, saying the Observatory would have been a useless detour.

My Thoughts: None of the clockwise "Center of the Rooms" runs forced the team into the Observatory, except possibly the "Golden Earring of Henry Morgan." Given this pattern, I don't believe the "Joan of Arc" team would have either. Still, it is a possibility.

-- During the prize sequence, the bottom of the Cave of Sighs was shown to have no guard.

-- Since the Gargoyle Room guard was avoidable, it was not necessary for the last guard to be avoidable as well. It is possible that the last guard was stationed in the Observatory and allowed for this run to be a potential solo victory. Another possible, but unlikely, scenario is that the team would have been forced into the Observatory, where the final guard was located. Placing the final guard in the Observatory would have created a scenario similar but upside-down to "Ponce de Leon and the Lost Fountain of Youth," with the team instead going clockwise and with the entrance guard in the other entrance room.

-- The only guard not seen in this run was the green-masked guard, who was sometimes stationed in both the Treasure Room space and the Observatory space. During the "Joan of Arc" production day specifically, he was seen in the Treasure Room during the "Zenobia" run and in the Observatory during the "Stolen Arm of Shiva" run. For this reason, I believe he could have been stationed in either of the two rooms.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 15, 2013, 11:16:54 PM
I say the last guard was indeed in the Treasure Room. It wouldn't make much sense to put it in the Observatory when it most likely would've been a useless detour for the team. None of the "center of the temple runs" ever required a team to enter the Observatory. And the path for the team was already long (minus the Well/Torch Room detour), so I don't think they would force them into the Observatory. The temple guard being in the Treasure Room would've been similar to the "Mata Hari" temple run layout. Except in "Joan of Arc", the Red Jaguars met a temple guard also in the Room of Three Gargoyles. So it was kind of good that the Red Jaguars met all three temple guards, or they might've had another "one room away" guard like in Mata Hari. Although Mandy should've gone in first and then Eddie.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 15, 2013, 11:58:56 PM
We are now on S1, L7, starting with "Medal of Sir Edmund Hillary."

Encountered Guards: Room of the Three Gargoyles, Heart Room, Shrine
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

All of the guards were encountered. There shouldn't be any question of where they were.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 16, 2013, 12:41:10 AM
Up now is the "Mask of Shaka Zulu."

Encountered Guards: Cave of Sighs
Number of Unencountered Guards: 2
Rooms not Entered: Gargoyle Room, Observatory, Heart Room, Treasure Room, Shrine, Torch Room, Well

Notes: The guards' locations in this run is anybody's guess. People threw out the idea that there was an alternate path from the Gargoyle room to the Observatory. Other people suggested the path should have mimicked the "Paintbrush of Leonardo da Vinci" and "Stone Marker of Leif Erikson" paths. Other people noted the open chest in the Treasure Room during the temple overview, suggesting the Holes of Python should have led up to the Treasure Room. Many people agreed there was probably a guard in the Treasure Room, while the Observatory, Shrine, and Torch Room were all suggested as well as possible locations.

My Thoughts: This was another 1.5 pendant run, so finding the half pendant would point to where the guards were. The Treasure Room actuator and the base in the Shrine of the Silver Monkey were two known half pendant locations in Season 1, so perhaps the half pendant was located in one of those rooms in this run. That being said, there are some clues about what the path probably should have looked like for this run. The open treasure chest and the Well's bucket position suggest to me that the team was supposed to take the bottom floor to the Holes of Python, then go up to the Treasure Room, across to the Torch Room, and then back down. I don't know whether there would have been an alternate path going straight along the top floor, though it would not have been the first time it happened.

-- Just like I have said with other clockwise runs, I doubt there would have been a guard in the Well. I don't think the producers would have chanced having another "Kamehameha" incident.

-- It may be helpful to use the temple guard placements from the other runs the same day to help deduce where the remaining guards would have been placed in the "Shaka Zulu" run. Two of the runs featured guards in the Heart Room/Shrine combination (two rooms apart), another run saw guards in the Harmonic Convergence/Tomb of Ancient Kings (again, two rooms apart), and the other run featured the popular Treasure Room/Holes of Pythons space combination (a commonly-seen pair of guard placements). Since none of the guards from the rest of that production day were placed in back-to-back rooms, it would make the most sense to me that the guards for "Shaka Zulu" were placed in either the Treasure Room/Torch Room, Observatory/Shrine, or Heart Room/Shrine. The last two combinations would have been possible if there was the alternate upper floor route. The first combination would allow the half pendant to be located in either the Treasure Room or the Shrine, two rooms that were known to hold a half pendant in Season 1.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 17, 2013, 10:25:46 AM
Moving right along, we are now on "Golden Jaguar of Atahualpa."

Encountered Guards: Heart Room, Shrine
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Room of the Three Gargoyles, Observatory, Room of Three Torches

Notes: Many people in the past believed the last guard was in the Gargoyle Room because it was common for one of the guards to be in an entrance room when the team had 1 pendant. Others mentioned the Observatory as another possible location. Some people suggested that the Gargoyle Room would have led down to the Cave of Sighs, while others believed there was an alternate path that led across the Troubled Bridge and down the central shaft.

My Thoughts: The guard in the Shrine was the green-masked guard, and the guard in the Heart Room was the gold-masked guard. That only left the black-masked guard. Since the black-masked guard was always the one stationed in the Gargoyle Room, it is possible he was there. However, considering the possible paths and which guards would be forced along those different paths, it may not have made sense for him to have been there.

-- If the Gargoyle Room only led down to the Cave of Sighs, then the Gargoyle Room and Heart Room guards could have been avoided. This run only would have ended in triple capture if the team mimicked the "Jeweled Necklace of Montezuma" path.

-- If the Gargoyle Room led to the Troubled Bridge and down the central shaft, then all three guards would have been forced along the path, which would have mimicked the "Dried Apple Half of William Tell" and "Bullet-Riddled Handbag of Belle Boyd" paths. Since this team only had 1 pendant, I doubt the producers would have created a path where simply entering the "wrong" entrance room would have automatically forced all of the guards to be encountered.

-- Under these different circumstances, a guard in the Gargoyle Room may or may not have made sense. Assuming there was the second path across the Troubled Bridge, I don't think the guard would have been in either the Gargoyle Room or Observatory, because that would have created the forced triple capture scenario. In my mind, the Torch Room would have been the only logical place for the last guard to have been on this path. However, if the Gargoyle Room only led down to the Cave of Sighs, then it would have made perfect sense for the last guard to have been in the Gargoyle Room, which would have created the same path as "Jeweled Necklace of Montezuma," with the Heart Room guard potentially avoidable, regardless of the entrance room the team started in.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 17, 2013, 04:08:58 PM
Next is "Silver Saddle Horn of Hannibal."

Encountered Guards: Treasure Room, Holes of Python
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Room of the Three Gargoyles, Room of Three Torches, Well, Tomb of Ancient Kings

Notes: All of the rooms were mentioned as possible locations for the final guard for one reason or another. When Vicky was in the Observatory, the door opened to go back down to the Troubled Bridge/Gargoyle Room, so some people believed the other guard was in the Gargoyle Room. Others suggested the team would have encountered the guard in either the Well or Tomb of Ancient Kings because, given the short path the team could have taken by going straight across the bottom floor of the temple, the run probably could not have been a potential solo victory.

My Thoughts: This run was a 1.5 pendant run, so if we found the half pendant, that would assist us in narrowing down the possible rooms. Even without knowing the location of the half pendant, we can make some inferences of where the last guard was.

-- If the other guard was in the Gargoyle Room, then the half pendant would have been in one of the outer temple rooms, most likely the Throne Room. The last guard would have been the one in the Holes of Python, and the half pendant was usually in the room prior to the final guard. As far as I can tell, there wasn't a half pendant in the Throne Room, so the half pendant and final guard were probably beyond the Holes of Python.

-- As far as I can tell, the second and third guards were only very rarely stationed in back-to-back rooms in Season 1, so I am very hesitant to believe the final guard was in the Tomb of Ancient Kings since there was a guard in the Holes of Python. The only run that comes to mind that had back-to-back guards was "Elizabeth I's Golden Ship."

-- Even though this team would have entered nearly every room en route to the Saddle Horn, the simplest path that would have led them to the Shrine was straight along the bottom floor of the temple. Because of this very short path and the Well's position, I think the team would have been forced into the Well and up into the Torch Room before gaining access to the Shrine. The Well/Torch Room, therefore, would have been the last room before the artifact. It was quite common for the final guard to be in the room before the artifact in Season 1.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 17, 2013, 08:34:07 PM
"Alexander and the Gordian Knot" is up now.

Encountered Guards: Throne Room, Tomb of Ancient Kings
Number of Unencountered Guards:1
Rooms not Entered: Room of the Three Gargoyles, Heart Room, Treasure Room

Notes: Everyone believed that the final guard was in the Treasure Room. The half pendant was in the Shrine, and the Treasure Room was the next room over. It was probably not necessary to enter the Heart Room, so the Treasure Room would have also been the room immediately prior to the artifact.

My Thoughts: I agree. Even though all three guards would have been forced, it wouldn't have been the first time that happened. Also, there is no way the team could have passed by the half pendant without noticing it. It was in the base where the contestants had to assemble the Silver Monkey, and the second runner was going to be the only one in the Shrine because of the prior temple guards' placements. Retina had to find the half pendant, so the run wouldn't have ended in triple capture.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 17, 2013, 10:15:36 PM
Yeah, the "Gordian Knot" temple layout is really weird where all three temple guards were forced. But it has happened in a few other episodes of the show. And Retina found the half-pendant anyways, so there was no need to worry about that guard.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 17, 2013, 11:56:37 PM
Next up are "King Tut's Cobra Staff" and "Dragon Lady and the Blue Pearl" from S1, L8.


King Tut's Cobra Staff:

Encountered Guards: Heart Room, Shrine
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Cave of Sighs, Holes of Python

Notes: The last guard was spotted at the bottom of the Cave of Sighs during the prize sequence. Photo courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf.






Dragon Lady and the Blue Pearl:

Encountered Guards: Treasure Room, Tomb of Ancient Kings
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Cave of Sighs, Throne Room, Heart Room

Notes: The last guard was spotted in the Cave of Sighs during the prize sequence. Photo courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf.


Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot319 on January 18, 2013, 12:08:28 AM
Why do the guards look different in both pictures? It looks like the Cobra Staff guard has some sort of sash around him while the Blue Pearl guard looks like any ordinary temple guard. :?
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 18, 2013, 08:53:36 AM
Why do the guards look different in both pictures? It looks like the Cobra Staff guard has some sort of sash around him while the Blue Pearl guard looks like any ordinary temple guard. :?

That is a great question. I think it has to do with the temple guard's posture. In the "Cobra Staff" photo, the guard is standing upright. The golden pendant necklace is higher up on his body, and his clothing underneath (the blue sash) is more apparent. In the "Blue Pearl" photo, the guard is squatting, so the golden pendant necklace falls lower down on the body, covering the sash underneath. This same "discrepancy" can be seen in a few other Season 1 runs with the guard in the Cave of Sighs.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 18, 2013, 09:41:07 AM
Next, we've got "Codebook of Mata Hari."

Encountered Guards: Holes of Python, Treasure Room
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Room of the Royal Gongs, Observatory, Room of Three Torches

Notes: People believed the final guard was in the Gong Room, or possibly Torch Room. They negated the Observatory since the half pendant was found in the Shrine of the Silver Monkey, and the next room over held a guard.

My Thoughts: I think the other guard was in the Gong Room. Nearly all of the Center of the Rooms runs held a guard in one of the entrance rooms, usually the "decoy" room. I don't think this run would have broken the pattern by placing all three guards in the inner temple.

-- One interesting thing to note about this run is, when Gareth is in the Treasure Room before the guard captured him, he tried the actuator to the Observatory, and it opened.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 18, 2013, 10:35:06 AM
Up next is "Pecos Bill's Lost Lariat."

Encountered Guards: Heart Room, Throne Room
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Cave of Sighs, Throne Room, Holes of Python, Tomb of Ancient Kings

Notes: In the past, people guessed the final guard was in the Throne Room. There wasn't a guard in the Holes of Python when Chris was exiting the temple. The Tomb of Ancient Kings did not open from the Shrine, so the players were not granted access to that room before reaching the artifact. During the final credits, the Cave of Sighs was shown to be clear of a guard. Photo courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf.




My Thoughts: I agree that the guard was in the Throne Room. The deductive reasoning seems sound, and the half pendant location supports the placement as well.

-- Although the photo below is blurry, the half pendant can be seen on the throne in the Throne Room. Photo courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf. Since the half pendant was in the Throne Room, it would make sense for the final guard to have been the one in the Treasure Room because there was usually (if not always) at least one guard in the room of the half pendant/prior to the half pendant. The only rooms prior to the Throne Room were the Cave of Sighs (clear because of the previous photo) and Wheel Room (never held a guard). By default, the only room left that could hold the guard was the Throne Room.


Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 18, 2013, 10:51:12 AM
And to finish off S1, L8, next up is "Robin Hood and Marian's Ladder."

Encountered Guards: Throne Room, Heart Room
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Observatory, Room of the Three Torches, Well, Tomb of Ancient Kings, Holes of Python

Notes: In the past, people were baffled by where the last guard was, but deduced that he had to be in the Observatory. The Holes of Python was locked from both the Throne Room and Treasure Room, and there was no guard in the Cave of Sighs during the credits. The only room the team may have been given access to that wasn't entered was the Observatory, which means the last guard had to have been there.

My Thoughts: I agree. That line of reasoning is completely sound and logical. In addition, I may have been able to capture an image of the temple guard in the Observatory upon Jeremy's exit from the temple. In the top right and bottom left photos below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf, you can catch a small glint behind the back wall of the Observatory, in the camera-left black cut-out of the wall. That same glint is absent from the other two photos, which were taken one frame prior and one frame immediately after those with the glint. That glint very easily could have come from the golden emblem on the temple guard's headdress as he was maneuvering out of the way to not be seen by the camera/contestant.


Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: GreenMonkeys#1 on January 18, 2013, 06:41:45 PM
If that is indeed a Temple Guard in the Observatory in.  :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:, then all the Temple Guards would be in the Central Shaft

  :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 18, 2013, 08:18:15 PM
If that is indeed a Temple Guard in the Observatory in.  :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:, then all the Temple Guards would be in the Central Shaft

That is a very good observation. Considering how the final days' layouts were in each season, it wouldn't be surprising. It seemed that the final days' runs were gimmicky, either in their paths, temple guard placements, or both. There weren't that many rooms unlocked during the "Silk Ladder" run, so there were fewer possible rooms for the last guard to have been stationed. As gimmicky as it was to have the whole central shaft stocked with guards, that is the only possible scenario for this run, and the photographic evidence further supports the reasoning.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: GreenMonkeys#1 on January 18, 2013, 08:33:34 PM
If that is indeed a Temple Guard in the Observatory in.  :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:, then all the Temple Guards would be in the Central Shaft

That is a very good observation. Considering how the final days' layouts were in each season, it wouldn't be surprising. It seemed that the final days' runs were gimmicky, either in their paths, temple guard placements, or both. There weren't that many rooms unlocked during the "Silk Ladder" run, so there were fewer possible rooms for the last guard to have been stationed. As gimmicky as it was to have the whole central shaft stocked with guards, that is the only possible scenario for this run, and the photographic evidence further supports the reasoning.

Just like Queen Nzinga, one after another
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 18, 2013, 09:08:43 PM
We're into the last layout of Season 1!

"Lawrence of Arabia's Headdress" is the first episode of the layout.

Encountered Guards: Cave of Sighs, Room of the Fallen Columns, Treasury of Golden Orbs
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

All of the guards were encountered, so there isn't any question of where they were.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 19, 2013, 09:02:11 AM
Next is "Collar of Davy Crockett."

Encountered Guards: Throne Room, Observatory
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Room of the Royal Gongs, Room of Three Torches, Well, Tomb of Ancient Kings, Holes of Python

Notes: Past people believed that the only room that was unlocked and not entered in the "Davy Crockett" path was the Room of the Royal Gongs.

My Thoughts: I agree. Neither the Throne Room or Treasury of Golden Orbs opened down to the Holes of Python, and none of the rooms beyond the Holes of Python were accessible either. Since the only room that was accessible but not entered was the Room of the Royal Gongs, it had to hold the final guard. In addition, the gold-masked guard was in the Throne Room, and the green-masked guard was in the Observatory. That only left the black-masked guard, who was always the one stationed in the upper entrance room.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 19, 2013, 09:33:12 AM
The penultimate Season 1 episode is "Snake Bracelet of Cleopatra."

Encountered Guards: Room of the Fallen Columns, Treasury of Golden Orbs
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Well, Tomb of Ancient Kings, Holes of Python, Throne Room, Cave of Sighs

Notes: The final guard was spotted at the bottom of the Cave of Sighs during the credits. A photo is provided below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf. The temple guard is in the lower left-hand corner of the image, and the camera was tilted at the time, so his head is slanted. He is facing to his right (our left).


Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 19, 2013, 09:34:51 AM
And to finish off Season 1, last up is "Treasure of Anne Bonny."

Encountered Guards: Room of the Royal Gongs, Throne Room, Room of Fallen Columns
Number of Guards Unencountered: 0

All of the guards were encountered, so there shouldn't be a question of where they were.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 19, 2013, 02:38:43 PM
Even though all of the Season 1 episodes were already mentioned, please feel free to go back and comment on those episodes if something was missed or if you have any thoughts or opinions not mentioned already. It would be really helpful to quote the past episode, so that all of the information pertaining to the same episode stays together.

In the meantime, let's get started with Season 2!
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 19, 2013, 02:57:44 PM
The first episode of Season 2 was "Silver Horseshoe of Butch Cassidy."

Encountered Guards: Dark Forest (left tree)
Number of Unencountered Guards: 2
Rooms not Entered: Crypt, Observatory, King's Storeroom, Shrine

Notes: When Paula was exiting the temple, the King's Storeroom temple guard door was ajar. I have provided an image of the door below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf. It was not like that during Olmec's temple rundown. Because of this, people in the past thought one of the guards was in the King's Storeroom. The other guard was suggested to have been in either the Crypt or Observatory, though no reasoning was provided.




My Thoughts: This 1 pendant run needed to have at least one avoidable guard. As we can see from Paula's run, two were avoidable.

-- I agree that the opened King's Storeroom door seems very out of place. It would not surprise me if there was a guard in that room.

-- As far as the other guard, it very easily could have been in the Observatory. During Olmec's temple rundown, they cut back to Olmec's face when he started to describe the Observatory objective. During the run, they never zoomed in very well on the room and used the stationary camera in the back of the room, so we can't see if there was a headdress peeking out from behind the Observatory wall. To some, this may seem suspicious.

-- Even so, I think the final guard was in the Crypt. It was quite common for one of the guards in 1 pendant runs to be stationed in one of the entrance rooms; in fact, I believe all of the 1 pendant runs in Season 2 had an avoided/avoidable guard in an entrance room, but we'll get to that as we progress through the season. For this reason, I think the other guard for the "Silver Horseshoe" run was in the Crypt.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 19, 2013, 03:29:06 PM
I don't recall many details from the "Butch Cassidy" run, but didn't Paula try the King's Storeroom door from the Heart Room and it was locked? The temple layout would be a little bit unusual if the guard was in the King's Storeroom and one was in the Dark Forest. Unless the King's Storeroom was meant to be a deadend. But I agree, the temple guard door being open in the King's Storeroom is a little unusual. I say that the other guard was in the Crypt because at least one temple guard had to be avoidable.'

And I can't believe we are into S2 already.  :o I plan on making a "completion list" out of this list though by keeping track of all of the episodes where we know where all three temple guard locations were. Then we can update the list as we move along in the topic.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 19, 2013, 03:47:06 PM
I don't recall many details from the "Butch Cassidy" run, but didn't Paula try the King's Storeroom door from the Heart Room and it was locked? The temple layout would be a little bit unusual if the guard was in the King's Storeroom and one was in the Dark Forest. Unless the King's Storeroom was meant to be a deadend. But I agree, the temple guard door being open in the King's Storeroom is a little unusual. I say that the other guard was in the Crypt because at least one temple guard had to be avoidable.'

Paula did indeed try the King's Storeroom from the Heart Room, and it was locked. Another thing that is worth mentioning is that when Kirk was commentating as Paula entered the Heart Room, he said that the only ways out of the room were by going up to the Observatory and down into the Throne Room. Kirk's failure to mention the King's Storeroom is a little out of place.

Perhaps the guard was not in the King's Storeroom, but was rather in the Observatory. The door from the Heart Room may have led to the Observatory, which would have led back to the Pit, creating a path identical to the very next episode's run, "Golden Stallion of Ali Baba." Had Paula began at the top of the central shaft, she would have encountered the guard there, then would have been forced down the central shaft and across the bottom floor. This path and having the last guard in the Observatory would have been very similar to the "Silk Sash of Mulan" run.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 19, 2013, 03:54:08 PM
The Observatory makes more sense too IMO. It would follow the "Ali Baba" layout in a way and I think the King's Storeroom being locked from the Heart Room might be enough proof that the King's Storeroom was a locked room, unless it was unlocked from the Observatory. I guess the Shrine is also a possibility, but it seems kind of useless if the King's Storeroom was not entered.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 19, 2013, 04:10:51 PM
I can't think of any Season 2 episodes off of the top of my head where the Heart Room was locked to the King's Storeroom, but the Observatory allowed the teams through to the King's Storeroom. I also can't imagine how or why Paula would have been allowed to enter the Shrine during the "Silver Horseshoe" run, so I don't believe a guard would have been in that room.

The paths and series of unlocked doors tended to be similar across each production day. In "Golden Stallion of Ali Baba," the team got caught in an endless loop by heading up the central shaft. All of the doors from the Pit opened, but the only way to progress passed the central shaft was through the Swamp. The "Silver Cannonball of Grandy Nanny" featured the artifact in the Swamp, so the only way passed the central shaft was by going from the Heart Room to the King's Storeroom. But we saw in that run that when the team completed the King's Storeroom, the door from the Observatory also unlocked. Therefore, when the King's Storeroom was meant to be entered, both the Heart Room and Observatory were unlocked and would allow the team into the King's Storeroom; this was not the case for the "Silver Horseshoe" run.

If the guards really were in the Crypt, Observatory, and Dark Forest for the "Silver Horseshoe" run, then the guard placements would have followed the common entrance room/central shaft/inner temple pattern. The Observatory guard could have been encountered if the team began at the top of the central shaft. Additionally, the awkward camerawork in the Observatory during the temple rundown makes me think that perhaps they were stationing the guard there at the moment the camera was panning over the room, so that had to be edited out; they covered over that edit by cutting back to Olmec.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 19, 2013, 10:29:13 PM
I'll skip "Secret Battle Plans of Nathan Hale" and come back to it when we move on to that layout's runs.

Up right now is "Golden Stallion of Ali Baba."

Encountered Guards: Heart Room, Throne Room, Dark Forest (left tree)
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

All of the guards were encountered, so there shouldn't be any question of where they were.



And to complete S2, L1, let's do "Silver Cannonball of Grandy Nanny" while we're at it!

Encountered Guards: Ledges, King's Storeroom, Shrine
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

Yet again, all of the guards were encountered, so there shouldn't be any question of where they were.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 20, 2013, 11:20:14 AM
Here is my "Completion Tracker" for the Season One episodes and their temple guard encounters. All episode titles in bold are ones that we already know where all three temple guards are located at, or have enough evidence to pinpoint where all three temple guards are located at. I will do season 2 and 3 once we get closer to finishing them and make the list a little more fancy. ;)

Season One: Completion Tracker
1x01 - Blackbeard's Treasure Map
1x02 - The Golden Cup of Belshazzar
1x03 - Galileo's Cannonball
1x04 - Wild Bill Hickok and the Dead Man's Hand
1x05 - John Henry's Lost Hammer

1x06 - The Golden Cricket Cage of Khan
1x07 - Elizabeth I's Golden Ship
1x08 - John Sutter and the Map to the Lost Gold Mine
1x09 - The Star of Sultan Saladin

1x10 - The Keys to the Alhambra
1x11 - The Helmet of Genghis Khan
1x12 - The Trojan Horseshoe
1x13 - The Pendant of Kamehameha
1x14 - The Lost Logbooks of Magellan

1x15 - The Moccasins of Geronimo
1x16 - Henry VIII's Great Seal
1x17 - The Lucky Pig of Amelia Earhart
1x18 - Ponce de Leon and the Lost Fountain of Youth

1x19 - The Treasure Map of Jean Lafitte
1x20 - The Oracle Bowl of Delphi
1x21 - The Paintbrush of Leonardo da Vinci
1x22 - The Golden Chains of Zenobia
1x23 - The Belly Button of Buddha
1x24 - The Stolen Arm of Shiva
1x25 - The Stone Marker of Leif Ericson
1x26 - The Helmet of Joan of Arc
1x27 - The Medal of Sir Edmund Hillary
1x28 - The Mask of Shaka Zulu
1x29 - The Golden Jaguar of Atahualpa
1x30 - The Silver Saddle Horn of Hannibal
1x31 - Alexander and the Gordian Knot
1x32 - King Tut's Cobra Staff
1x33 - The Dragon Lady and the Blue Pearl
1x34 - The Codebook of Mata Hari
1x35 - Pecos Bill's Lost Lariat
1x36 - Robin Hood and Marian's Ladder

1x37 - Lawrence of Arabia's Headdress
1x38 - The Collar of Davy Crockett
1x39 - The Snake Bracelet of Cleopatra
1x40 - The Treasure of Anne Bonny


Completion %: 26/40 = 65%
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 20, 2013, 11:09:03 PM
Let's move right along with S2, L2.

First up is "Walking Stick of Harriet Tubman."

Encountered Guards: Crypt, Throne Room, Shrine
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

All of the guards were encountered in this run, so there should be no question as to where they were.


And next is "Lost Love Letter of Captain John Smith."

Encountered Guards: Throne Room, Medusa's Lair, Shrine
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

Yet again, all of the guards were encountered.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 21, 2013, 05:28:51 PM
Up now is "Diary of Dr. Livingstone."

Encountered Guards: Throne Room, Dark Forest (Left Tree)
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Observatory, Medusa's Lair, King's Storeroom, Ledges

Notes: Past comments included the belief that the final guard was in the Ledges. They were unsure as to whether the door from the Throne Room to Medusa's Lair opened, which would have allowed the team to access the upper central shaft. Additionally, some people claimed to have "spotted" the guard, providing the image below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf. The golden blur at the bottom of the Ledges was believed to be a guard.




My Thoughts: While I find the photo to not provide the best evidence for a temple guard spotting, I believe that it would have made the most sense to station a guard there. Most of the other early Season 2 episodes had a guard stationed in one of the entrance rooms. Also, since there was already a guard stationed in the Throne Room, I don't think they would have had another guard in the central shaft; they didn't seem to do that unless multiple rooms in the central shaft were meant to be entered, or if there was a one-room-long dead end in Medusa's Lair. Look at the other episodes from the "Dr. Livingstone" day: Walking Stick of Harriet Tubman (guard in the Crypt), Captain John Smith (two guards in the central shaft, both part of the forced path), and Bone Necklace of the Blackfeet Chief (last guard most likely in the Crypt). These runs all followed the scenarios mentioned above, while none of those scenarios were met in the "Dr. Livingstone" run. Therefore, I believe the last guard was in the Ledges in the "Dr. Livingstone" run.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on January 21, 2013, 06:21:34 PM
I always thought the last guard in Dr. Livingstone was in the Heart Room. For a possible dead end, ala "The Golden Stallion of Ali Baba," another run that also had temple guards in the Throne Room and Dark Forest.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 21, 2013, 06:47:27 PM
I always thought the last guard in Dr. Livingstone was in the Heart Room. For a possible dead end, ala "The Golden Stallion of Ali Baba," another run that also had temple guards in the Throne Room and Dark Forest.

That is another very good possibility.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 21, 2013, 10:41:09 PM
Next on the list is "Bone Necklace of the Blackfeet Chief."

Encountered Guards: Swamp, Dark Forest (left tree)
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Crypt, Observatory, Medusa's Lair, Viper's Nest, Mineshaft

Notes: All of the rooms were considered to be possibilities. No one was sure whether the door opened leading from the Throne Room to Medusa's Lair. Even though there was rarely a guard in the Mineshaft, everyone was hesitant to believe that room was safe as well.

My Thoughts: During Olmec's temple rundown, the temple guard door in the Crypt was slightly ajar, and as the camera swept over the room the door closed. I have provided a photo below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf. It reminds me of the original photo I posted in the "Interesting Photos from Various Episodes" thread, where someone was behind the temple guard door in the "Moccasins of Geronimo" run.




-- While I highly doubt the white object was a guard, since nothing on their outfits was that color, I believe the Crypt would have been the most likely place for the guard to have been.

-- I don't necessarily think the door leading up to Medusa's Lair opened. Leah did not even turn her head in that direction when she got up from the Throne, which was unlike most contestants who had the option of going either way.

-- Considering the two encountered guards were in back-to-back rooms, I don't think the last guard would have been in a third consecutive room. Even though it occurred in "Crown of Queen Nzinga" and "Missing Eye of David," I honestly can't see why the producers would have done it in this run. The temple guard in the Dark Forest was blocking the wall, so it's doesn't seem likely to me that the team would have avoided the temple spirit by plowing through the wall, only to meet a temple guard in the very next room.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 21, 2013, 11:37:58 PM
We will now move on to "Mush Pot Hat of Johnny Appleseed."

Encountered Guards: Crypt, King's Storeroom
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Ledges, Medusa's Lair, Dark Forest, Swamp, Throne Room

Notes: There were mixed opinions in the past. Some people thought the final guard was in Medusa's Lair, since the door opened down from the Observatory. Others thought the Dark Forest held a guard because the door opened from the Shrine to the Dark Forest. Other people suggested the Throne Room held the last guard, simply because there was a guard in that room so frequently in Season 2.

My Thoughts: I believe the last guard was in Medusa's Lair. That room was accessible from the Observatory, so chances are that the Pit would have also opened to Medusa's Lair, and that room would have also led straight across to the King's Storeroom in addition to leading up to the Observatory. That whole "triangle to nowhere" configuration was seen countless times in the first two seasons.

-- In addition to that configuration itself, the temple guard placements within that set up were often repeated. It was so common for the "triangle to nowhere" to be lurking with guards if all of those doors were unlocked. Take "Lawrence of Arabia's Headdress," "Priceless Portrait of the Polynesian Girl," and "Upside-Down Compass of Henry Hudson" for example (there were a handful of other runs that also fit the criteria, but those three came to mind first); each of those runs featured a "triangle to nowhere" and held two or more guards in those three rooms.

-- One other thing to note is that, there is a very brief camera shot that shows the Dark Forest during the run, while Angela is climbing down into the Mineshaft. The left tree does not have its limb up against the stone wall, like it did in the other episodes from that day when there was a guard in the tree. I highly doubt the guard would have been in the right tree if there was a guard stationed in the Dark Forest, since the team could have avoided the room completely AND only had to plow through the wall in that room.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 22, 2013, 12:58:13 AM
I think the last guard in the "Blackfeet Chief" run was in the Crypt. I don't recall any layout where a team met a guard in both the Dark Forest and Mine Shaft room space if they entered from the Swamp. It seems kind of pointless to me, unless they want to "punish" the team for not using the Dark Forest. But they should only put a guard in the Mine Shaft if there was no temple spirt in the Dark Forest like in "Henry Morgan".

Also, Medusa's Lair makes sense also for the "Johnny Appleseed" guard. I am not sure what this whole "triangle to nowhere" was, but a guard being in Medusa's Lair would've been similar to the temple guard layout in the "Benjamin Franklin" run where if the team skipped Medusa's Lair, then they would've avoided a temple guard.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 22, 2013, 08:32:36 AM
Also, Medusa's Lair makes sense also for the "Johnny Appleseed" guard. I am not sure what this whole "triangle to nowhere" was, but a guard being in Medusa's Lair would've been similar to the temple guard layout in the "Benjamin Franklin" run where if the team skipped Medusa's Lair, then they would've avoided a temple guard.

The "triangle to nowhere" is my phrase to describe when the Observatory/Heart Room/King's Storeroom spaces were completely unlocked in all directions, forming a triangle that, if the teams were not careful, would send them into a loop between the three rooms. Season 1 contestants often got caught in that loop, as did a few players in Season 2. This looping path could usually be broken by going into the Shrine of the Silver Monkey, but sometimes the only way out was by going down into the Throne Room space.

It was common for one- sometimes two- guards to be stationed in this triangular path. Often times, at least one of the guards was avoidable, as was the case you mentioned with the Medusa's Lair guard in the "Benjamin Franklin" run.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 22, 2013, 04:10:11 PM
Up next is the "Cracked Crown of the Spanish King."

Encountered Guards: Ledges, Throne Room, Dark Forest (left tree)
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

All of the guards were encountered. No need to go looking for where they were.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 22, 2013, 04:20:27 PM
And while we're at it, let's finish "Imperial Purple Robe of Empress Theodora" too.

Encountered Guards: Dark Forest (right tree), Shrine
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Observatory, Medusa's Lair, King's Storeroom, Ledges

Notes: Most people in the past thought the final guard was in the Ledges. Some people also suggested the guard was in the central shaft, in case the team began in the upper central shaft and then was forced down to the Throne Room. The King's Storeroom was locked from the Shrine and every believed it would be unnecessary for that room to have been used as a dead end, if the team began in the upper central shaft.

My Thoughts: Considering both encountered guards were so deep in the temple, I'd imagine the other one was at the very outside of the temple. For example, "Discarded Seal of Ivan the Terrible" featured a guard in the third room, and the other guards were in rooms eight and nine.

-- While I suspect the team would have been given access to at least one of the other central shaft rooms from the Pit, I doubt the producers would have placed a guard there. Why would they punish the team by placing a guard there, in addition to taking the longest route possible? The producers only tended to place guards in the excessive rooms of the longest route when the team had 1 pendant, allowing that guard to be avoided. Since the "Imperial Purple Robe" team had 2 pendants, I think that temple guard placement pattern would not have been used.

-- Using this line of deductive reasoning, I would place the final guard in the Ledges for this run.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 22, 2013, 04:21:49 PM
Now, we are moving right along to "Stone Head of the Evil King."

Encountered Guards: Throne Room, Medusa's Lair, King's Storeroom
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

All of the guards were encountered. There should be no question as to where they were.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 23, 2013, 10:20:33 AM
Up next is "Lucky Medallion of Atocha."

Encountered Guards: Ledges
Number of Unencountered Guards: 2
Rooms not Entered: Crypt, Throne Room, Swamp, Dark Forest

Notes: Every room was brought up as a possible room, for one reason or another. Some people suggested the Crypt because the layout seemed as though the producers may have put a guard in both entrance rooms. Other people mentioned the Throne Room/Swamp because they didn't think the Crypt held a guard and the Dark Forest did not open from the Shrine. Others said there was a possibility for there to have been a second path that led across the bottom floor of the temple, and they placed the guards in the Throne Room and Dark Forest because there didn't appear to be a guard in the Swamp when Ty exited the temple.

My Thoughts: To be completely honest, this run puzzles me. I don't think there would have been a completely divergent second path to the artifact, but I am also hesitant to believe the producers placed guards in both entrance rooms.

-- I suppose they may have put a guard in both the Crypt and Ledges because this was a 1 pendant run. It seemed that the 1 pendant run temple guard placements were more gimmicky and more spaced out, since it had to be possible to avoid at least one guard entirely.

-- Like the prior comments, I don't think the Swamp had a guard because there didn't appear to be one when Ty exited the temple. Also, I doubt the Dark Forest would have held a guard because the Shrine didn't not lead to that room, and I don't think there was a completely alternate path along the bottom floor of the temple. The only way for a guard to have been stationed in the Dark Forest, then, would have been if the Throne Room opened to Medusa's Lair and the Swamp, and to have a two-room-long dead end in the Swamp and Dark Forest. I don't think that would have happened.

-- For these reasons, the only rooms left for there to have been a guard would have been the Crypt and Throne Room. I suppose that the placement of the guards would have made sense: Crypt, Ledges, Throne Room. In the other episodes from that day and the day prior, all of the guards were clustered together, near the outside of the temple. My suggested placements would have followed suit.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot319 on January 23, 2013, 10:50:57 AM
It's possible that there was a guard in the Swamp. In "The Very Tall Turban of Ahmed Baba", the Swamp temple guard hid out of view behind the ledge in the front of the room. You can't see him in that run until he reveals himself. Maybe that was the case for Atocha as well. Maybe the Swamp was a dead-end. It wasn't rare for the Swamp to be a dead-end in season 1, so that might be a possibility. It's possible that the door leading to the King's Storeroom would've opened from the Swamp.

If the Swamp really did have a temple guard in it, then I'm sure the Throne Room had the other guard as well. This could've been a Jean Lafitte-like run where two paths merge into the center room, with the Throne Room having the temple guard and not the Observatory. I doubt there were guards in both entrance rooms. I think the only run where that was possible was "The Jeweled Scabbard of Sforza". That's how I feel.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 23, 2013, 03:21:08 PM
I have to agree with TPP, I don't think that one of the guards were in the Crypt. I don't think they used the "double entrance guard" trick until Season 3. And even then, I only think that it was used in the "Sforza" episode. I just don't see how having the guard in the Crypt would work out. I guess it would've forced Ty down into the Ledges, but I don't recall ever seeing a S2 temple run with a gimmicky layout like that.

I think the last guard was in the Swamp. The last two guards being in the Swamp and Throne Room makes sense since they would be "direct path" guards. Since Ty took the high road, he then avoided the two guards that would've doomed this team if they stayed low. I am not sure if the Swamp would've lead up to the King's Storeroom. The Swamp never really unlocked upwards when it appeared in S1 or S2. It wasn't until "Mulan" when the doors leading up worked.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 23, 2013, 03:52:18 PM
I have to agree with TPP, I don't think that one of the guards were in the Crypt. I don't think they used the "double entrance guard" trick until Season 3. And even then, I only think that it was used in the "Sforza" episode. I just don't see how having the guard in the Crypt would work out. I guess it would've forced Ty down into the Ledges, but I don't recall ever seeing a S2 temple run with a gimmicky layout like that.

I think the last guard was in the Swamp. The last two guards being in the Swamp and Throne Room makes sense since they would be "direct path" guards. Since Ty took the high road, he then avoided the two guards that would've doomed this team if they stayed low. I am not sure if the Swamp would've lead up to the King's Storeroom. The Swamp never really unlocked upwards when it appeared in S1 or S2. It wasn't until "Mulan" when the doors leading up worked.

As long as I'm not forgetting any episodes, I don't believe there were any episodes prior to the installment of the ladder in the Jesters' Court where the team was given access to ascend from the Swamp space to the King's Storeroom space, either in Season 1 or Season 2. Additionally, I cannot recall any instances in Season 2 where the Swamp/Jesters' Court was a dead-end (or was accessible for it to be a dead-end). Only Medusa's Lair was sometimes a dead-end from the Throne Room, but that was only in runs where the artifact was located in the King's Storeroom or Observatory.

While I agree that a guard in the Crypt was unlikely and would have been very gimmicky, I believe having a guard in the Swamp would have been even more out of place for the "Atocha" run.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 23, 2013, 07:24:44 PM
To continue on with S2, L2, next up is "Applewood Amulet of Emiliano Zapata."

Guards Encountered: Medusa's Lair, King's Storeroom
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Crypt, Observatory, Mineshaft, Dark Forest, Swamp, Throne Room

Notes: In the past, seven different people expressed their belief that the last guard was in the Crypt. Many people noted that the half pendant was on the actuator to Medusa's Lair, and  there was always at least one guard prior to the half pendant. The only room that was not entered before the half pendant was the Crypt. Additionally, some people contested that, while the door to the Throne Room was undeniably locked, the door to the Observatory was not tried and may have been open. They stated that either the Observatory would have bypassed the Medusa's Lair guard or would have been a dead end. Even if the Observatory were to have served as a dead end, they noted that the dead end Observatories never had guards in them.

My Thoughts: What more can I say? Every single reason that could possibly be mentioned has been named, and I don't see any reason for the guard to have been anywhere else.

-- Even if the Observatory was accessible, it would have had to have led down to the King's Storeroom. Since the half pendant was located on the Medusa's Lair actuator for "Zapata," the team would not have come across its path if they went up to the Observatory and then were only allowed to go down to Medusa's Lair.

-- Having a guard in an entrance room and then two in back to back inner temple rooms (Heart Room/King's Storeroom, in particular) has happened in other episodes; "Elizabeth I's Golden Ship" comes first to mind. It wouldn't be out of the question for a similar placement to have happened again. Conversely, the only time all three guards were in that three-room loop was "Henry Hudson."
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on January 23, 2013, 07:43:51 PM
The last guard in Applewood Amulet had to be in the Crypt. I don't think there's any other room that would fit.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 23, 2013, 10:33:46 PM
I think the last guard was also in the Crypt also. To me, it wouldn't make any sense to put the last guard in the Observatory when the half-pendant was on the actuator to Medusa's Lair. If the last guard was in the Observatory, then why put the half-pendant on the Medusa's Lair actuator after all and trick the contestant if they went into the Observatory first? I know this happened in "The Priceless Portrait of the Polynesian Girl", but the Room of the Mandarin Hand was probably a detour to the Observatory for Kristen anyways. Besides, I don't think the Observatory door opened for Robert from Medusa's Lair anyways. I don't remember if it opened to the King's Storeroom when Olivia-Emma completed the room objective though. I have to check that out.

And it seemed like all the temple layouts that day used a temple guard in an entrance room: The Lucky Medallion of Atocha (Ledges), The Electrified Key of Benjamin Franklin (Crypt), and The Lucky Pillow of Annie Taylor (Crypt, judging from Missy's path). So it would make sense if the Emiliano Zapata guard was in one of the entrance rooms.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 24, 2013, 08:44:49 AM
Next up is "Electrified Key of Benjamin Franklin."

Guards Encountered: Medusa's Lair, King's Storeroom
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Crypt, Viper's Nest

Notes: Every person believed the final guard was in the Crypt. Once Michelle finished assembling the Silver Monkey, the door to the Viper's Nest appeared to remain shut. Since the team was not given access to that room, a guard would not have been stationed there. The only other room that was not entered was the Crypt. The team was given the option of entering that room, so the guard must have been there.

My Thoughts: I think that explanation hit the nail on the head. Additionally, note that in the last group of runs for S2, L2, there was a guard either encountered or most likely stationed in an entrance room. This idea of similar guard placements will probably be helpful when we get into the next set of runs.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 24, 2013, 08:54:31 AM
And to finish up S2, L2, let's move on to "Lucky Pillow of Annie Taylor."

Guards Encountered: Throne Room
Number of Unencountered Guards: 2
Rooms not Entered: Crypt, Mineshaft, Viper's Nest, Observatory

Notes: Nobody believed the producers would have "been cruel enough" to place a guard in the Observatory. Likewise, the Viper's Nest would have only been entered if Missy got turned around in the Shrine or took a two-room-long detour. Many people believed placing a guard there would have been unlikely. By deduction, that only left the Crypt and Mineshaft.

My Thoughts: I agree with the suggested placements for the two final guards.

-- Having one of the guards in the Crypt would have followed the "entrance room guard" trend seen throughout the rest of the production day. Also, in general, it was common for one of the guards to be in an entrance room during Center of the Room runs.

-- Placing a guard in the potentially avoidable Mineshaft would have been similar to "Golden Earring of Henry Morgan," which was also a 1 pendant Center of the Room run. In that episode's run, the door leading from the Shrine to the Dark Forest opened when Shem finished assembling the Silver Monkey. A similar scenario could have played out like "Annie Taylor" if Ashley used the key in the Dark Forest. In the same way, the "Annie Taylor" run could have ended up like "Henry Morgan" if Missy chose to plow through the stone wall.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 24, 2013, 10:01:05 PM
"Missing Eye of David" is first up for S2, L3.

Guards Encountered: Medusa's Lair, Laser Light Room, Swamp
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

All of the guards were encountered, so there shouldn't be any mysteries as to where the were.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 24, 2013, 10:28:31 PM
And next on the list is "Enormous Iron Nose Ring of Babe."

Encountered Guards: NONE
Number of Unencountered Guards: 3
Rooms not Entered: Crypt, Observatory, Medusa's Lair, Lightning Ball Room

Notes: Many people noted that right after Joel plowed through the wall and ran into the Mineshaft, the left tree in the Dark Forest began to flail its arms, showing that one of the guards was there. The other guards were believed to be in the Crypt and one of the other entrance rooms. The Lightning Ball Room was negated as a possibility.

My Thoughts: While capturing a single frame is difficult, if you watch the run for yourself, you can clearly see the Dark Forest left tree's arms move, which indicates that there was a guard there.

-- The half pendant can be seen on the actuator from the Troubled Bridge to the Observatory during Olmec's temple rundown. I have provided an image below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf. There was clearly another route that would have brought the team across the top of the temple, down the central shaft, and then across the bottom floor. One of the guards was always stationed before the half pendant, so that forced the Crypt to hold a guard.




-- Since one of the guards was in an entrance room and another was in the deep inner temple, I think it would have made sense to have a guard in the central shaft. It was common for that temple guard distribution to be used. Additionally, there were not that many runs where the second guard was deep in the temple (along the path that would have forced the team to encounter all three guards). The only runs of this type that come to mind immediately are "Imperial Purple Robe of Empress Theodora," "Red Sash of Tokugawa Ieyasu," and "Discarded Seal of Ivan the Terrible." Therefore, I don't think there would have been a guard in the Lightning Ball Room.

-- Generally in Season 2, the only time guards were placed in the Crypt and Observatory together was when the third guard was also in the outer temple (Medusa's Lair, King's Storeroom, or Laser Light Room spaces). Since the last guard in the "Iron Nose Ring" run was in the deep temple, I believe the final guard was in Medusa's Lair.

-- Often times, when a team began on the lower floor, the door leading to Medusa's Lair opened. In cases where going up to Medusa's Lair would lead to either a dead-end or a useless detour in the wrong direction, there was usually a guard there. Take "Mask of the Man in the Iron Mask," "Golden Stallion of Ali Baba," and "Jeweled Necklace of Montezuma" for instance. This is further evidence supporting the idea that the third guard was in Medusa's Lair.


-- In summary, I think the guards for "Iron Nose Ring" were in the Crypt, Medusa's Lair, and Dark Forest (left tree).
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 25, 2013, 08:52:35 AM
Next up is "Very Tall Turban of Ahmed Baba."

Guards Encountered: Swamp
Number of Guards Unencountered: 2
Rooms not Entered: Crypt, Medusa's Lair

Notes: While it would be easy to say that the last two guards were in the two unentered rooms, many people brought up the fact that Shane never tried either of the trees in the Dark Forest, so one of them may have held a guard. People thought one of the guards was in the Crypt because the half pendant was in the Rock Quarry, and there was always a guard prior to the half pendant, which would have forced a guard to be in the Crypt. Some people suggested the Dark Forest held a guard, since Shane never tried either tree. Others believed there was a guard in Medusa's Lair, since it would have been an extra room that detoured from the King's Storeroom.

My Thoughts: This temple guard placement is very tricky. All of the rooms serve as very good possibilities for housing the last two guards. However, due to this run's path and my observations from other episodes, I think it would have made the most sense to place the guards in the Crypt and Dark Forest.

-- The half pendant location in the Rock Quarry suggests to me that there was a guard prior to that room, forcing the Crypt to hold a guard.

-- Unlike many other Season 1 and 2 Observatory/King's Storeroom runs, the Medusa's Lair space did not open from the Laser Light Room space; instead, Shane was given access to Medusa's Lair from the King's Storeroom. Instead of serving as a dead-end early in the run, Medusa's Lair would have served as a detour late into the run. Since the first two guards in my opinion were in the Crypt and Swamp, I doubt the producers would have placed the final guard six rooms after the second guard, in a room that would have only been entered if the team chose to add an extra room onto their path.

-- I feel that the door opening to Medusa's Lair in the "Very Tall Turban" run is akin to the Observatory opening in "Henry Morgan." Even though Shem detoured into the Observatory in that run, there was not a guard in that room; instead, he was "penalized" by using up more time. I think that a similar situation would have played out if Shane went into Medusa's Lair during his run.

-- Another thing that makes me believe the final guard was in the Dark Forest was that the runs surrounding the "Very Tall Turban" had guards in that room as well. The "Enormous Nose Ring" and "Ivory Elephant" runs both featured a guard in the Dark Forest. Normally, temple guard placements are somewhat similar throughout a single production day. Also, imagine how difficult it would have been to place the spotter inside of the trees, do the run, move the guard to a different room, do that run, place the spotter inside the tree again, and finally do the last run. That seems a bit ridiculous and a waste of time on the producers' part. I think it would have made more sense on the producers' part to keep the temple guard in the Dark Forest for all three of those consecutive runs.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on January 25, 2013, 03:00:03 PM
I disagree, the temple guards had to be in the Crypt and Medusa's Lair. To me, it makes no sense to put it in the Dark Forest, despite the temple spirit from the previous run. I just never ever agreed with the temple guard in the Dark Forest theory. If you remember in "The Mask of the Man in the Iron Mask," the artifact was in the Observatory, with Medusa's Lair and Swamp temple guards. It was probably gonna be the same here.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot319 on January 25, 2013, 03:02:17 PM
I actually agree with PP4L. His reasoning behind this seems to be spot on.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 25, 2013, 04:23:10 PM
I disagree, the temple guards had to be in the Crypt and Medusa's Lair. To me, it makes no sense to put it in the Dark Forest, despite the temple spirit from the previous run. I just never ever agreed with the temple guard in the Dark Forest theory. If you remember in "The Mask of the Man in the Iron Mask," the artifact was in the Observatory, with Medusa's Lair and Swamp temple guards. It was probably gonna be the same here.

The major difference between "Iron Mask" and "Very Tall Turban" is that Medusa's Lair opened from different rooms at different points in their runs. Therefore, the two episodes are not identical in path, and may not have featured a similar temple guard placement. Take "Discarded Seal of Ivan the Terrible" and "Enormous Feather of the Me Linh," for example; you will find that those two Observatory runs and temple guard placements were different. In "Discarded Seal," the team began in the Chamber, and then was forced down, across the bottom floor, and finally back up. The temple guards for that run were all stationed on the top floor, with the first guard early in the run and the other two guards deep in the path. "Enormous Feather of the Me Linh" forced the team directly to the bottom floor and back up, avoiding the Chamber entirely. The two encountered guards for this run were on the bottom floor, and the final guard had to be in either the Ledges or Secret Password. As you can see, just like as was the case with "Iron Mask" and "Very Tall Turban," those two Observatory runs had minor differences in their paths/what doors opened, and as a result, their temple guard placements were severely different and the teams' amounts of success were different.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 25, 2013, 04:41:22 PM
I don't see how the Enormous Feather/Ivan the Terrible are that comparable. They were two both King's Storeroom temple runs, and that was about it. Karisa and David's temple guard placement were different because they had one pendant. So the producers had to give them at least one option to where they could avoid a temple guard. Travis and Elisa had two pendants, so the Room of the Ancient Warriors guard didn't matter much either way even if it was avoidable. If Karisa and David had the same temple guard placement, it would've been more unfair to them. If anything, the Enormous Feather/Jedediah Smith temple runs were more comparable.

But back to "Ahmed Baba". I rewatched the temple run again and it looks like Medusa's Lair did not open from the Laser Light Room. Shane even tried climbing up into Medusa's Lair, but the door was closed. I think the last guard was indeed in the Dark Forest. It's unclear what tree held the temple spirit since the stage left tree wasn't protecting the breakable wall. But then again, it didn't protect the wall in Joel's run either, so it might've been there.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 25, 2013, 05:42:03 PM
I don't see how the Enormous Feather/Ivan the Terrible are that comparable. They were two both King's Storeroom temple runs, and that was about it. Karisa and David's temple guard placement were different because they had one pendant. So the producers had to give them at least one option to where they could avoid a temple guard. Travis and Elisa had two pendants, so the Room of the Ancient Warriors guard didn't matter much either way even if it was avoidable. If Karisa and David had the same temple guard placement, it would've been more unfair to them. If anything, the Enormous Feather/Jedediah Smith temple runs were more comparable.

My purpose for comparing those runs was to show that when different doors were available (even when the runs seemed generally similar in path), the temple guard placements were different. The number of pendants affected the temple guard placements, but nonetheless, my overarching idea holds true if we are to compare any of the Season 3 King's Storeroom runs. In all of the cases, the paths were slightly different due to which doors were accessible. Because a different sequence of doors was open, the temple guards had to be arranged differently.

Likewise, a different sequence of doors was available when comparing "Iron Mask" with "Very Tall Turban," so the temple guards were most likely arranged in a different combination.

But back to "Ahmed Baba". I rewatched the temple run again and it looks like Medusa's Lair did not open from the Laser Light Room. Shane even tried climbing up into Medusa's Lair, but the door was closed. I think the last guard was indeed in the Dark Forest. It's unclear what tree held the temple spirit since the stage left tree wasn't protecting the breakable wall. But then again, it didn't protect the wall in Joel's run either, so it might've been there.

Yes, the door from the Laser Light Room to Medusa's Lair was locked. When Shane completed the King's Storeroom, doors leading to both the Observatory and Medusa's Lair opened. I have provided an image below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf. It would not have been likely for the team's path to have allowed them to go from the Ledges to the Rock Quarry, then into the Laser Light Room, up to Medusa's Lair, across to the King's Storeroom, and then up into the Observatory.




Another thing worth mentioning is that when Shane completed the statue in the Shrine, the door leading back down to the Dark Forest did not open. It would not have been the first time where there was a guard in the Dark Forest without the team being granted access directly to the Shrine. In fact, this scenario strengthens the possibility of having a guard in the Dark Forest: the team would have been "punished" with a temple guard encounter if they tried to find a key to take the shortcut directly to the Shrine.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 26, 2013, 12:46:41 AM
I don't think the last guard was in Medusa's Lair then even if Shane did enter the room. It seemed like a useless detour to me like the Observatory door opening in the "Henry Morgan" run even though Shane could've entered the Room of the Mandarin Hand directly. Either way, Shane got pretty lucky with his temple guard placement even though he took the longest way possible.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 26, 2013, 10:30:04 AM
I don't think the last guard was in Medusa's Lair then even if Shane did enter the room. It seemed like a useless detour to me like the Observatory door opening in the "Henry Morgan" run even though Shane could've entered the Room of the Mandarin Hand directly. Either way, Shane got pretty lucky with his temple guard placement even though he took the longest way possible.

I think you mean Shem, not Shane, for the "Henry Morgan" run. ;)

As far as Shane's route goes, I agree that he was incredibly lucky to have the temple guard placement he had. Considering he navigated nearly every room en route to the artifact, there was a very high chance he would encounter at least one more guard. Still, one must consider that a number of the Observatory runs in Seasons 1 and 2 had guard placements that allowed solo victories (Star of Sultan Saladin, Belly Button of Buddha, Very Tall Turban of Ahmed Baba, and Milk Bucket of Freydis). There were a few other Observatory episodes from those seasons which also could have been solo victories, had the teams from those episodes avoided certain rooms (Medusa's Lair in "Iron Mask," for example). So I guess that, all things considered, having two avoidable guards for the "Very Tall Turban" run was not that outlandish or unexpected.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 26, 2013, 11:58:03 AM
I don't consider "Freydis" and "Buddha" to be that lucky of a win when the teams did take shortcuts in those runs. As a result, they avoided a potential guard one way or another that might've changed the outcome of their run depending on how fast their partners were. Then again, both Tarrah and Jennifer made the mistake of detouring into the room to the left of the Shrine. That could've been detrimental to them as well. But Shane got lucky either way that his run didn't end similar to "Annie Oakley" and "Lost Fountain of Youth" where the teams in those runs took the longest way possible and got caught one room away.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 26, 2013, 12:18:04 PM
I don't consider "Freydis" and "Buddha" to be that lucky of a win when the teams did take shortcuts in those runs. As a result, they avoided a potential guard one way or another that might've changed the outcome of their run depending on how fast their partners were. Then again, both Tarrah and Jennifer made the mistake of detouring into the room to the left of the Shrine. That could've been detrimental to them as well. But Shane got lucky either way that his run didn't end similar to "Annie Oakley" and "Lost Fountain of Youth" where the teams in those runs took the longest way possible and got caught one room away.

I would like to clarify that I was not calling the "Freydis" and "Buddha" lucky in the sense that they were wins. I said that it was lucky that the other two guards were avoidable, especially considering how many rooms both of those teams were forced to enter. Yes, Tarrah and Jennifer took shortcuts which may have allowed them to bypass a guard. But it was lucky that their paths and sequences of open doors ALLOWED them to do so. Those runs, as well as "Very Tall Turban" and "Star of Sultan Saladin," very easily could have ended up like "Annie Oakley" or "Lost Fountain of Youth," with two guards being placed in rooms that the teams were forced to enter.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 26, 2013, 12:20:43 PM
Next up are "Ivory Elephant of Scheherazade" and "Sacred Ring of Sultan Suleiman."

Ivory Elephant of Scheherazade
Guards Encountered: Ledges, King's Storeroom, Dark Forest (right tree)
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0


Sacred Ring of Sultan Suleiman
Guards Encountered: Ledges, Observatory, Medusa's Lair
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0


All of the guards in both episodes were encountered. There should not be any question as to where they were.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 26, 2013, 06:45:31 PM
Next on the list is "Plumed Headdress of Cosa Rara."

Encountered Guards: Laser Light Room, King's Storeroom
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Crypt, Lightning Ball Room, Dark Forest, Swamp

Notes: People in the past had mixed opinions about where the final guard was in this run. Some people suggested the last guard was in the Crypt. Others hypothesized the guard was in the Lightning Ball Room. Since the step in the staircase lowered from the Observatory leading back to the Troubled Bridge, they believed the last guard had to be in the Lightning Ball Room so that he would be unavoidable if the team took the bottom route. There was also question regarding whether the team would have been given direct access to the Mineshaft from the Shrine, or whether they would have been forced into the Lightning Ball Room/Dark Forest.

My Thoughts: The elevator was in the Lightning Ball Room during the rundown for the "Plumed Headdress" run. With this placement, I believe the team would have been forced to enter the Lightning Ball Room from the Shrine. Also when the run ended, Kirk said the team was two rooms away, which further implies that the door leading directly from the Shrine to the Mineshaft probably would have been locked.

-- The Swamp appeared to be locked from the Laser Light Room, and I doubt both the Lightning Ball Room and Dark Forest would have opened from the Shrine. Since the elevator was up in the Lightning Ball Room, there was a better chance that the team would have entered the Lightning Room over the Dark Forest. That only leaves the Lightning Ball Room and Crypt as viable options to hold guards.

-- Even though the team would have been forced into the Lightning Ball Room, I think the last guard was in the Crypt. The Crypt was the only unentered room prior to the half pendant. Keep in mind that it was not uncommon for an entrance room to hold a guard and then force a team to the other entrance room. Also, the half pendant location and door opening from the Observatory to the Troubled Bridge makes perfect sense. That combination left the team with three possibilities:
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 27, 2013, 12:52:44 AM
The Observatory did not open to the Troubled Bridge in the Cosa Rara run actually. When Jessica is in the Rock Quarry, you can still see the Observatory door closed from the Troubled Bridge. So if the team did enter the Crypt, it looks like they would've been forced down into the Ledges all along.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 27, 2013, 01:00:26 AM
The Observatory did not open to the Troubled Bridge in the Cosa Rara run actually. When Jessica is in the Rock Quarry, you can still see the Observatory door closed from the Troubled Bridge. So if the team did enter the Crypt, it looks like they would've been forced down into the Ledges all along.

While the door was not slid over, the step in the staircase had lowered. I have provided an image below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf. It is similar to what happened in the Pit of the Pendulum during "Lost Hornpipe of the Pirate Captain" run, only we will never know if the door's mechanism got stuck in this run as well.


Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 27, 2013, 12:53:27 PM
Next up will be "Jeweled Necklace of Montezuma" and "Lost Lion Tail of Little John."

Jeweled Necklace of Montezuma
Guards Encountered: Crypt, Medusa's Lair, Dark Forest (left tree)
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0


Lost Lion Tail of Little John
Guards Encountered: Ledges, Swamp, Dark Forest (left tree)


Both of the teams encountered all three guards, so there shouldn't be any question as to where the guards were.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 27, 2013, 07:41:53 PM
Up now is "Shriveled Hand of Efoua."

Guards Encountered: Observatory, Medusa's Lair
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Ledges, Laser Light Room, Dark Forest

Notes: All of the rooms were mentioned at one point or another as being a likely location to hold the last guard. The Ledges could have been a dead-end that held a guard and forced the team up to the Crypt. The Laser Light Room holding the guard may have allowed for a second path along the bottom floor of the temple, similar to what happened in "Treasure Map of Jean Lafitte." Some people believed the Dark Forest held the last guard, saying it would not have been the first time that all three guards were unavoidable. Since the team had 2 pendants, it would not have mattered if all three guards were forced.

My Thoughts: It is hard to narrow down where the final guard was, but I have a feeling it was in the Ledges.

-- I doubt that the guard would have been in the Laser Light Room because it was very uncommon for all three guards to be in the central shaft. There was only one (maybe two) other episode where the guards were all stationed there, and that was in "Collar of Davy Crockett" from Season 1. That only leaves the Dark Forest and the Ledges as viable options to hold the last guard.

-- If you look at the other runs for this production day (Iron Mask, Nzinga, and Napoleon, which we will be getting to in the next few posts), you will notice that all of those episodes featured clustered guards that were primarily stationed in the outer temple. The only guard to not follow this trend was the Dark Forest guard in Nzinga. Since temple guard placements tended to stay quite consistent over any particular production day, it would not have made sense to place the final guard in the Dark Forest in the "Shriveled Hand" run. The Dark Forest would have been the final room before the artifact, and there would have been 4-5 rooms between the second and third guards, depending on whether the second runner bypassed the Lightning Ball Room or not. The Ledges, on the other hand, would have been a potentially avoidable room in the outer temple that would have been clustered with the other guards from the "Shriveled Hand" run. To me, the Ledges seems like a more probable room to hold the last guard.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 27, 2013, 08:05:03 PM
I think the last guard in "Efoua" was in the Ledges. If the last temple guard was in the Dark Forest, then that means that all of the temple guards were forced. It was pretty uncommon for all three temple guard encounters to be forced in any given season. I am not saying that it never happened (it happened in Sojourner Truth and Gordian Knot IIRC), but it was still pretty rare for a team to encounter all three guards. The Ledges makes more sense where the last temple guard would be avoidable and I would assume the Ledges were just a deadend anyways like in Sultain Suleiman and Ivory Elephant.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot319 on January 27, 2013, 08:12:22 PM
I always thought the last guard was in the Dark Forest. However, I guess TRJ is right when he said that three forced guards is rare. Maybe it was the Ledges.

Also, I'm still confused with the Atocha run. I still don't see how there could be two guards in both entrance rooms with a layout like that. It just seems impossible for that to be a possibility. I still say the final two guards were in the Throne Room and Swamp.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 27, 2013, 08:27:29 PM
I don't think the last guard in Atocha was in the Crypt either. We don't really know what doors would've opened on the bottom floor of the temple, but I am thinking the last guard was in the Swamp and Throne Room too. Since Ty and Jennifer had one pendant, it seemed unfair to put a guard in both entrance rooms. That is way too gimmicky of a temple layout to put a guard in both entrance rooms. The only temple run I ever see having a guard in both entrance rooms was in the Sforza run. And it makes sense too for that temple run because it was on the very last production day of the season. So the entire production day was filled with gimmicky layouts. But I definitely don't think the Atocha run had a guard in both rooms.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on January 27, 2013, 09:03:52 PM
The third temple guard in Efoua had to be in the Ledges. That's the only room that would fit. It would be stationed there to serve as a "direct path" trick, ala "The Bonnet of Dolley Madison." The Dark Forest just doesn't match up at all, even as a "one room away" trick.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 27, 2013, 10:53:07 PM
To return to the "Atocha" run:

Up next is "Lucky Medallion of Atocha."

Encountered Guards: Ledges
Number of Unencountered Guards: 2
Rooms not Entered: Crypt, Throne Room, Swamp, Dark Forest

Notes: Every room was brought up as a possible room, for one reason or another. Some people suggested the Crypt because the layout seemed as though the producers may have put a guard in both entrance rooms. Other people mentioned the Throne Room/Swamp because they didn't think the Crypt held a guard and the Dark Forest did not open from the Shrine. Others said there was a possibility for there to have been a second path that led across the bottom floor of the temple, and they placed the guards in the Throne Room and Dark Forest because there didn't appear to be a guard in the Swamp when Ty exited the temple.

My Thoughts: To be completely honest, this run puzzles me. I don't think there would have been a completely divergent second path to the artifact, but I am also hesitant to believe the producers placed guards in both entrance rooms.

-- I suppose they may have put a guard in both the Crypt and Ledges because this was a 1 pendant run. It seemed that the 1 pendant run temple guard placements were more gimmicky and more spaced out, since it had to be possible to avoid at least one guard entirely.

-- Like the prior comments, I don't think the Swamp had a guard because there didn't appear to be one when Ty exited the temple. Also, I doubt the Dark Forest would have held a guard because the Shrine didn't not lead to that room, and I don't think there was a completely alternate path along the bottom floor of the temple. The only way for a guard to have been stationed in the Dark Forest, then, would have been if the Throne Room opened to Medusa's Lair and the Swamp, and to have a two-room-long dead end in the Swamp and Dark Forest. I don't think that would have happened.

-- For these reasons, the only rooms left for there to have been a guard would have been the Crypt and Throne Room. I suppose that the placement of the guards would have made sense: Crypt, Ledges, Throne Room. In the other episodes from that day and the day prior, all of the guards were clustered together, near the outside of the temple. My suggested placements would have followed suit.
Also, I'm still confused with the Atocha run. I still don't see how there could be two guards in both entrance rooms with a layout like that. It just seems impossible for that to be a possibility. I still say the final two guards were in the Throne Room and Swamp.
I don't think the last guard in Atocha was in the Crypt either. We don't really know what doors would've opened on the bottom floor of the temple, but I am thinking the last guard was in the Swamp and Throne Room too. Since Ty and Jennifer had one pendant, it seemed unfair to put a guard in both entrance rooms. That is way too gimmicky of a temple layout to put a guard in both entrance rooms. The only temple run I ever see having a guard in both entrance rooms was in the Sforza run. And it makes sense too for that temple run because it was on the very last production day of the season. So the entire production day was filled with gimmicky layouts. But I definitely don't think the Atocha run had a guard in both rooms.

When I introduced the "Atocha" run in this thread, the first thing I stated about it was that this run baffled me. It is confusing to think about how the temple guards may have been placed because all of the possible combinations seem very unusual.

-- Placing the guards in the Crypt and Throne Room would have allowed all three guards to be encountered if the team began by entering the "wrong" entrance room, and by taking the commonly-used bottom door in the Pit. While placing a guard in both entrance rooms would have been very gimmicky, it would fit with the pattern of temple guard placements from the rest of the day: all of the guards were clustered toward the outer temple.

-- Placing the guards in the Throne Room and Swamp would have allowed all three guards to be encountered if the team stayed on the bottom floor as long as possible. It is not clear whether they would have been given access to the whole bottom floor, or if they would have been forced upstairs/back by a dead end. It was not out of the question to place guards in dead ends in Season 2, and this temple guard placement would also feature a cluster of guards toward the outer temple.

As you can see, both of those combinations seem possible because they are quite similar in how they would be encountered.


However, the biggest problem I have with having the guards in the Throne Room and Swamp for the "Atocha" run is that that placement would have forced one of two things to occur:

It would be very surprising if there was a second path en route to the artifact. If there were any diverging paths in the temple, they were always brief ("Thornwood Gavel" and "Jean Lafitte" had the biggest diverging/re-converging pathways seen in the show). There were never any entirely separate paths to get to the artifact, so I doubt that would have happened here.

There were plenty of dead ends in the Swamp space during Season 1, but not once did we see a dead end Swamp/Jesters' Court space over the entire second season. There were dead ends in Medusa's Lair/upper central shaft during Observatory and King's Storeroom runs in Season 2, but there were never any dead ends in the Swamp during that season. I'm not saying it was impossible to have a dead end there; I'm saying that it is highly unlikely because it didn't happen in any of the other episodes.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 28, 2013, 09:34:26 AM
If you want to continue discussing previous episodes, including the unresolved "Atocha" run, please feel free to do so. I love collaborating on these ideas and throwing new ideas out. Even if people have different opinions or views, I think it's great that we can discuss all of the possible options that others may not have considered. The only thing I ask is that everyone please quote the past comments so that all of the comments and ideas pertaining to the same episode stay together. It is much easier to find, read, and remember all of the explored options for the different episodes if all of the past comments are together in the same comment. That way, we can go back through the episodes later and easily find all of the information relating to the episode in question, rather than having to hunt through the many numbers of pages that have been collected here.

I will be moving on to the next episode in my next post, but again, please feel free to continue discussing previously-mentioned but unresolved episodes.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 28, 2013, 02:28:27 PM
Eh, I feel like both scenarios are out of place for Season 2. I don't recall any S2 temple runs where there was a temple guard in both entrance rooms, nor were there any deadends in the Swamp in S2 at all. However, I would take the Swamp deadend scenario over the double entrance room guard one. Who knows, maybe the Swamp would've opened up to the King's Storeroom? Highly unlikely, but we don' know what rooms opened from the bottom floor.

I am ready to move onto the next episode now anyways. Looks like next up is "The Mask of the Man in the Iron Mask".
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 28, 2013, 04:04:30 PM
"Mask of the Man in the Iron Mask" is indeed up now.

Guards Encountered: Medusa's Lair, Swamp
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Crypt, Lightning Ball Room, **Dark Forest (key was not searched for)

Notes: Many people believed the final guard was in the Crypt in this run. The reasoning was that it "would have been similar to the other runs where the artifact would be in the Observatory, and would have been a trap if the team was dumb enough to take the direct path."

My Thoughts: As I mentioned in the last comment about the "Efoua" run, this production day's temple guard placement featured the guards clustered toward the outside of the temple. "Two-Cornered Hat of Napoleon" saw an avoidable guard in the Crypt, and "Shriveled Hand of Efoua" may have had an avoidable guard in the Ledges. Given these two runs, it would not be out of the question to suggest that the final guard for "Iron Mask" was also in an avoidable entrance room.

-- It seemed as though this run's path and temple guard placements were somewhat similar to the "Jeweled Necklace of Montezuma" run from three episodes prior. Although the two runs were on different days and the artifacts were in different rooms, the general layout seemed almost identical: there was a dead end in Medusa's Lair that featured a guard, there was another guard in the bottom floor of the temple, and both teams utilized the ladder leading from the Mineshaft to the Shrine. Given these similarities, it would not surprise me if the final guard for the "Iron Mask" run was in the Crypt, exactly as it was for the "Jeweled Necklace."

-- And just to throw this out there on a whim: Justin entered the King's Storeroom in the final second of the run, and a guard did not come out from behind the door. However, Kirk's final commentary was "Oh! He got caught! He was just one room away!" While I believe Kirk meant that time caught up with Justin, it may have meant that the final guard was in the King's Storeroom, but was edited out. I really doubt it, but it's something worth mentioning.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 28, 2013, 04:09:58 PM
And to finish up S2, L3, let's do "Crown of Queen Nzinga" and "Two-Cornered Hat of Napoleon."

Crown of Queen Nzinga
Guards Encountered: Laser Light Room, Swamp, Dark Forest (right tree)
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0


Two-Cornered Hat of Napoleon
Guards Encountered: Crypt, Laser Light Room, Swamp
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0


Both of these runs saw the contestants encounter all three guards. There should not be any question as to where they were.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 28, 2013, 10:37:30 PM
Let's begin S2, L4 with "Silk Sash of Mulan."

Guards Encountered: Crypt, Observatory, Laser Light Room
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

All of the guards were encountered during this run, so there should not be any question about where they were.


However, I do have a question about the path that Jessie and Steven needed to take. The Observatory was a detour for this team, since they began in Medusa's Lair. Once Steven got his bearings, he went down to the Laser Light Room and across to the Jesters' Court. After completing the Jesters' Court, we was forced back up to the King's Storeroom.

-- Do you think that the Laser Light Room opened back up to the Pit when Steven revealed the white light? It is hard to tell since there are no zoomed out camera angles of that doorway at any point during the run or during the credits.

-- Considering how long this path was already, do you think the Secret Password would have directly opened from the Shrine, or do you think they would have been forced down again into the Mineshaft?

I would like to consider these two questions before moving on to "Golden Goblet of Attila the Hun" because that run featured a similar path layout. Using our knowledge about this run may help to predict the temple guard placement in the "Golden Goblet" run. Likewise, use your understanding about the "Golden Goblet" run to think about the questions above.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 29, 2013, 01:44:47 PM
"Golden Goblet of Attila the Hun" shared many attributes with "Silk Sash of Mulan." Both runs featured paths that forced the teams to switch floors in a series of consecutive rooms. The temple guards in "Silk Sash of Mulan" were all clustered toward the outside of the temple. However, a different configuration had to have been seen in "Golden Goblet."


Guards Encountered: Medusa's Lair
Number of Unencountered Guards: 2
Rooms not Entered: Ledges, Secret Password, Dark Forest

Notes: Everybody seemed to believe that there was a guard in the Ledges. Since the half pendant was in the Pit of Despair, there was most likely a guard in the Ledges because it was the only unentered room prior to the half pendant. For the second guard, though, there was much more debate. Some people claimed their heard/saw the door open from the Jesters' Court to the Dark Forest, which may or may not have allowed direct entry to the Mineshaft. Others suggested that the Secret Password held the other guard because it would not have made sense to force Rachelle down from the Shrine to the bottom floor for a third time.

My Thoughts: I agree that one of the guards had to be in the Ledges. The only time I could imagine there being a guard in both the Secret Password and Dark Forest spaces in the same run is "War Fan of the Forty-Seven Ronin," but I will discuss that later on. In the meantime, the Ledges had to have been part of the "unencountered guard" combination.

-- I believe that the other guard was in the Secret Password. When I went back and watched the run, I did not hear the proper sound effect for the Dark Forest to open from the Jesters' Court, nor did I see light come into the Jesters' Court to indicate that the door opened. And as mentioned in the notes, I doubt Rachelle would have been forced to switch floors another time from the Shrine, especially considering the fact that the elevator was up in the Secret Password during the temple overview.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 29, 2013, 02:50:31 PM
Yeah, I think the last guards in Attila the Hun were in the Ledges and Secret Password. I rewatched the run, and I didn't see the Dark Forest open from the Jester's Court at all. So it's not like the producers were trying to pull an "Alhambra" or "Empress Theodora". The Ledges makes sense for the first guard because there was usually at least one temple guard before the half-pendant in S2. And I think the other temple guard was in the Secret Password. I am not sure how the Dark Forest would've worked for the team though. Could they have plowed through the Mine Shaft wall? If so, then it was possible to get a solo victory out of this run.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 29, 2013, 10:58:48 PM
Let's move on now to "Leopard-Skin Cloak of Annie Oakley."

Guards Encountered: Laser Light Room, King's Storeroom
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Observatory, Ledges

Notes: Everybody was in consensus that the final guard was in the Ledges. They believed it would have been too harsh of a layout to force the team into the Observatory, let alone place the last guard in that room. Having the guard in the Ledges, on the other hand, would have followed the pattern seen in most Center of the Rooms runs: the avoidable guard was in the "wrong" entrance room, and the team decided the difficulty of the run by either entering or avoiding that first guard. If the frontrunner was caught by the entrance room guard, they would have been taken out of the temple quickly, allowing the second runner to spend less time following up on the frontrunner's path. Contrastingly, if the team avoided the entrance room guard, the frontrunner would have been taken out very deep into the run, leaving the second runner with minimal time to follow the path and clear the final room(s) en route to the artifact.

My Thoughts: See "Notes."  :)
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 30, 2013, 12:02:26 AM
It pretty much makes sense for the last guard in Annie Oakley to be in the Ledges. THK put it perfectly in the other topic: the team would not have to worry about being taking out one room away if they started in the Ledges. Even though they would've won if Chandra never took the elevator at all.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 30, 2013, 12:05:22 AM
And to complete S2, L4, let's also look at "Snakeskin Boots of Billy the Kid."

Guards Encountered: Crypt, Laser Light Room
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Observatory, Medusa's Lair, King's Storeroom, Secret Password, Ledges

Notes: Most people eliminated the Ledges as an option because there was a guard in the other entrance room. Since the only room that opened from the Pit was the Laser Light Room, and it didn't appear that the door opened to Medusa's Lair, the only unlocked room left would have been the Room of the Secret Password.

My Thoughts: The first thing I'd like to mention about this run is that I find the guard in the Laser Light Room to be very peculiar. When Kelly first enters the room, the camera angle is different from normal and the room seems unusually foggier than normal. Additionally, the guard came around from the other side of the wall, rather than waiting perched directly to the side of the wall. He seemed to also come out from hiding after a much longer delay than usual. Overall, I find the Laser Light Room guard out of place. Perhaps he was originally not supposed to be stationed there, but then was moved for some reason at the start of the run, and was not ready to come out when Kelly entered the room?

Okay, enough of my hogwash. Let's move on to finding the unencountered guard.

-- Medusa's Lair most certainly did not open from the Laser Light Room, nor did the Jesters' Court give access to the King's Storeroom. There were no lighting changes to indicate those doors opened.

-- Since there was already a guard in the Crypt, I don't see why there would have been a need to station a guard in the Ledges as well.

-- This only leaves the Room of the Secret Password, which makes sense. In addition to probably holding a guard two episodes earlier ("Golden Goblet of Attila the Hun"), stationing a guard there would have punished the team for not trying the door from the Mineshaft to the Shrine. The guard would have also been one room away from the artifact. Since the elevator was down in the Mineshaft in this run, and there were a number of episodes where teams bypassed the chance to try the ladder but instead going straight to the elevator (i.e. "Leopard-Skin Cloak of Annie Oakley," "Two-Cornered Hat of Napoleon," and "Very Tall Turban of Ahmed Baba"), it would not be out of the question.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 30, 2013, 05:54:57 PM
Since we are now moving into S2, L5, I'll jump back to "Secret Battle Plans of Nathan Hale" and then continue on with "Golden Pepperoni of Catherine de Medici." Afterwards, we will move on to the final seven episodes of the season.


"Secret Battle Plans of Nathan Hale"
Guards Encountered: Crypt, Observatory, King's Storeroom
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0


"Golden Pepperoni of Catherine de Medici"
Guards Encountered: Crypt, Laser Light Room, King's Storeroom
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

All of the guards were encountered in both episodes. There should not be any question about where the guards were.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 30, 2013, 11:53:23 PM
We shall now move on to "Golden Earring of Henry Morgan."

Guards Encountered: Laser Light Room, Mineshaft
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Ledges, Secret Password

Notes: People shared ideas expressing why both rooms had potential to hold the last guard. A guard in the Room of the Secret Password would have "complicated" things a bit, by punishing the team for not using shortcuts. Back-to-back guards like that was seen in "Tokugawa Ieyasu." On the other hand, the Ledges would have been likely because so many other runs in Season 2 featured a guard in an entrance room, especially one pendant runs and Center of the Rooms runs.

My Thoughts: I think having the final guard in the Ledges seems more likely. A lot of runs in Season 2 featured a guard in an entrance room, especially the one pendant runs. The Center of the Rooms runs almost always had a guard in an entrance room as well. Since this episode had both of these qualities, it would make the most sense to me to place the last guard in the Ledges.

-- In addition, this team's success would not have been ultimately decided simply by choosing the "wrong" entrance room. Ashley found the key in the Dark Forest but did not try the door leading directly to the Shrine. Later, when Shem assembled the Silver Monkey, the door leading back down to the Dark Forest opened, meaning Ashley could have avoided the Mineshaft and its guard entirely. Aside from it being a potential solo victory, this run may not have been forced to end in triple capture if the team had chosen to begin in the Ledges instead of the Crypt because the Mineshaft guard was avoidable as well.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 31, 2013, 06:27:27 PM
Up next is "Milk Bucket of Freydis."

Guards Encountered: Laser Light Room
Number of Unencountered Guards: 2
Rooms not Entered: Crypt, Room of the Mandarin Hand, Mineshaft

Notes: Many people believed there was a guard in the Crypt because it would follow the common trend of placing a guard in an entrance room. Since the Room of the of the Mandarin Hand opened from the Laser Light Room, some people thought the other guard would have been in there to create a dead-end/guard double whammy. Others suggested the final guard was in the Mineshaft because Tarrah never plowed through the wall from the Dark Forest.

My Thoughts: The door from the Laser Light Room to the Mandarin Hand definitely opened upon revealing the white light, and the door leading back to the Mineshaft when the Silver Monkey was assembled. Both of those rooms were clearly accessible during the run. And, as with every run, the team had access to the Crypt because it was an entrance room. Since all three rooms were clearly accessible and have very solid explanations as to why they could have held a guard, it makes this analysis quite difficult.

-- Since the room opened from the Laser Light Room, rather than the King's Storeroom, the Mandarin Hand room would have been a dead-end instead of a detour. In most Season 2 runs where the Center of the Room was a dead-end during an Observatory run or a detour during a King's Storeroom run, there was a guard stationed there. Another thing worth mentioning is that there was an encountered guard in the Mandarin Hand three times of the nine episodes that room was featured. It would not surprise me if that room held a guard in the "Milk Bucket" run as well.

-- In the "Golden Earring of Henry Morgan," the run immediately prior to "Milk Bucket of Freydis," there were encountered guards in the Laser Light Room and Mineshaft. It is quite possible that the guard placement for the "Milk Bucket" run was identical, with guards in the same positions on the bottom floor. There was a guard in the Laser Light Room, and we know how similar guard placements were usually seen throughout a production day, so it would be a good guess to think that the other guard was in the Mineshaft.

-- The Crypt seems like a very logical guess, simply because all of the S2, L5 runs either featured a guard in an entrance room or most likely had a guard in the unentered entrance room (we can rationalize this through deductive reasoning). We know how similar guard placements were usually seen throughout a production day, so it would also be a good guess to think that the other guard was in the Crypt.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on January 31, 2013, 06:47:18 PM
I always thought the guards in "Freydis" were in the Crypt and the Mine Shaft. If "Golden Earring" (the run before them), featured a guard in the Mine Shaft, then it's plausible that there was a Mine Shaft guard in "Freydis" as well.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 31, 2013, 08:32:11 PM
I say the Mine Shaft also for the last guard in the "Freydis" run. Tarrah already encountered a temple guard in the Laser Light Room, so I don't see any need to put one into the Room of the Mandarin Hand when it would've been a useless detour/deadend anyways. If the temple guard was layout was similar to "Montezuma" or "Iron Mask", than I would say that it was more likely in the Room of the Mandarin Hand. And like mentioned above me, the temple guard layout is almost identical to the "Henry Morgan" run. Except Ashley and Shem busted through the Mine Shaft when they didn't need to.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 31, 2013, 11:04:03 PM
My biggest reservation about placing the guards for "Milk Bucket" in the Crypt and Mineshaft is that the Mandarin hand room would not have had a guard, and to me, that seems unlikely. In all of the Observatory runs where the team was given access to the Heart Room space from the bottom of the central shaft, it was a dead end and featured a guard. I doubt the producers would have only allowed the Mandarin Hand to be a dead end. Additionally, the "Milk Bucket" production day saw the guards get stationed all over the temple in rather unusual patterns and clusters; therefore, it would not makes sense to eliminate the Mandarin Hand as a viable option simply because there was a guard in the Laser Light Room.

But I agree that the other guard was most likely in the Mineshaft because of the similarities to the "Henry Morgan" run.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 31, 2013, 11:29:21 PM
One thing the episodes do have in common during that day is that the temple guards were spread out.

Golden Pepperoni: Crypt, Laser Light Room, King's Storeroom
Henry Morgan: Laser Light Room, Mine Shaft, and Ledges (most likely)
Charles Lindbergh: Laser Light Room, King's Storeroom, Shrine

So the temple guards were a little more spread out during that day. I think one of the guards were in the Crypt to create a direct path guard in "Freydis". I just don't think the other guard was in the Room of the Mandarin Hand. Let's assume Tarrah entered the Crypt - she would've most likely swung across the top of the Pit and tried the door to the upper floor rooms. If the Mandarin Hand room did have a guard, then Chris would've met another one right after that in the Laser Light Room. I only think the producers would've clustered the guards together like this if the Purple Parrots had 1.5 pendants like the "Nathan Hale" and "Polynesian Girl" runs.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 31, 2013, 11:48:22 PM
The guards may have appeared to have been spread out over that production day, but if you look at the paths that each team took, all of the guards were placed every other room, plus or minus one room between the second and third guards. Based on this "pattern," the only way to uphold the pattern for "Milk Bucket" would be to have the guards be stationed in the Crypt, Laser Light Room, and Mineshaft.

Even though that configuration would be the only way to uphold the pattern, I am still hesitant to believe that the Mandarin Hand was only a dead end without also being a guarded room.

And another thought regarding the "Milk Bucket" path: I'm guessing the Crypt would have only led down to the Ledges because it would have made that entrance room entirely obsolete for this run. With most Season 2 runs, the entrance room guard was more often in the "wrong" entrance room. And since the Mandarin Hand was most likely a dead end, it would not have been accessible from the Pit, making the Crypt/Pit doorway and rope swing unhelpful to the "Milk Bucket" team anyway.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 01, 2013, 09:34:25 AM
The next episode on the list is "Missing Weather Maps of Charles Lindbergh."

Guards Encountered: Ledges, King's Storeroom, Shrine
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

All of the guards were encountered, so there should not be any question as to where they were.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 02, 2013, 01:33:49 AM
We are quickly drawing toward the end of Season 2. Please continue commenting on previously-mentioned episodes if something was skipped over or if you would like to discuss something in more detail. But for right now, we will be looking at "Levitating Dog Leash of Nostradamus."

Guards Encountered: Laser Light Room, Mandarin Hand
Rooms not Entered: Ledges, Observatory, Mineshaft, Dark Forest, Jesters' Court

Notes and My Thoughts: Everyone seemed to believe the guard was in the Ledges. The Jesters' Court was locked from the Laser Light Room, and none of the doors leading down opened from the Shrine. The only other room that was accessible during this run was the Observatory, which would have only been entered if the team backtracked. Although it was seen, placing a guard in the Observatory would have been unlikely because it would have meant that the entire central shaft was stocked with guards. Since the half pendant was located in the Pit, it would have made sense to place the guard in the only room prior to it, the Ledges. In all of (or at least most of) the S2, L5 runs, a guard was stationed in one of the entrance rooms. I don't think the "Levitating Dog Leash" run would have been an execption.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on February 02, 2013, 12:28:13 PM
Another thing a couple of the S2L5 1.5 pendant temple runs had in common were that the temple guards were more stationed near the beginning of the temple. Both the "Nathan Hale" and "Polynesian Girl" run had temple guards in one entrance room and the next two entered rooms after the Pit. Jason and Elizabeth already encountered a temple guard in the Laser Light Room and Room of the Mandarin Hand. So if this temple run were to follow the pattern of the two runs listed above, then the last guard would be in the Ledges. Plus, the half-pendant was on the Laser Light Room actuator. So usually that means there was at least one temple guard encountered before the half-pendant location.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot319 on February 02, 2013, 12:32:26 PM
I can't wait for season 3. There are a couple of runs that I want to see you talk about, like the War Fan run.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 02, 2013, 12:38:51 PM
Another thing a couple of the S2L5 1.5 pendant temple runs had in common were that the temple guards were more stationed near the beginning of the temple. Both the "Nathan Hale" and "Polynesian Girl" run had temple guards in one entrance room and the next two entered rooms after the Pit. Jason and Elizabeth already encountered a temple guard in the Laser Light Room and Room of the Mandarin Hand. So if this temple run were to follow the pattern of the two runs listed above, then the last guard would be in the Ledges. Plus, the half-pendant was on the Laser Light Room actuator. So usually that means there was at least one temple guard encountered before the half-pendant location.

Precisely, another excellent point. That is just one more reason to believe the final guard was in the Ledges in the "Levitating Dog Leash of Nostradamus" run.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 02, 2013, 01:21:10 PM
Up next is "Broken Wing of Icarus."

Guards Encountered: Mandarin Hand
Number of Unencountered Guards: 2
Rooms not Entered: Ledges, Laser Light Room, Dark Forest (right tree), Mineshaft, Secret Password

Notes: Most people in the past believed there was a guard in the Ledges, since the other S2, L5 runs had a guard in an entrance room. But as far as the other guard goes, there were conflicting ideas. Some people suggested the Laser Light Room held the last guard since the other runs from that production day were clustered near the outside of the temple. Others believed one of the inner temple rooms held the last guard because it would have made that guard more easily avoidable.

My Thoughts: Since this team had only 1 pendant, at least one guard had to be avoidable. As we can tell from the outcome of this run, two guards were avoidable. Nonetheless, we have to construct a situation where one of the unencountered guards may have been forced, while the other was potentially avoidable.

-- It was very common in S2, L5 to place a guard in an entrance room. Since the Crypt led to the Pit, it would not be surprising if there was a guard in the Ledges.


-- While the image below is very pixelated, if you watch the run at this particular moment with a very keen eye, you will see that the door leading back to the Laser Light Room opened when Jason activated the door in the Jesters' Court. Image courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf.




-- It is not clear if Jason would have been allowed to gain entry to the Laser Light Room from the Pit or Mandarin Hand (or both), but since the door from the Jesters' Court to the Laser Light Room opened, at least one of those doors had to have opened/been able to open. The reason I am making this assumption is that there was never a dead end Throne Room space when the team was already in the inner temple. ["Lost Logbooks of Magellan" and "Golden Cup of Belshazzar" featured a dead end Harmonic Convergence when the team was first trying to enter the inner temple. And "King Tut's Cobra Staff" was not technically a dead end because the door leading to the Wheel Room opened; it was only a 'dead end' because the rock slab was still down.] Given these facts, it is all the more possible that the Ledges would have led across the bottom floor of the Pit, and then into the Laser Light Room and Jesters' Court.

-- Since the cameras never zoomed out to show even a snippet of the Laser Light Room during the run, I suspect a guard may have been perched against the wall of the Laser Light Room. Had the cameras zoomed out like normal, we would have seen the avoided guard, so they purposefully stayed zoomed in on each room in which Jason was present.

-- By placing guards in the Ledges and Laser Light Room, that would have forced two guards to be encountered if the team began by entering through the bottom floor. The run only would have ended in triple capture if April decided to go up to the Mandarin Hand Room (if it was accessible) instead of the Jesters' Court.

-- Since it was common for the guards to be clustered near the outer temple in S2, L5, the Ledges and Laser Light Room seems like a logical and possible combination.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot319 on February 02, 2013, 01:33:25 PM
I think you're right about the Ledges and Laser Light Room. That's what I was thinking and the picture really helps the reasoning. However, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the guards was hidden in the Mine Shaft. Do you think the producers would've put a guard in the other Dark Forest tree?
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 02, 2013, 02:09:53 PM
I think you're right about the Ledges and Laser Light Room. That's what I was thinking and the picture really helps the reasoning. However, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the guards was hidden in the Mine Shaft. Do you think the producers would've put a guard in the other Dark Forest tree?

There is a very slight chance that the other Dark Forest tree could have held a guard. It was not always necessary for the guard to be in the tree that held the key. Likewise, the Mineshaft could always have a small possibility since there was a guard in the Mineshaft in "Golden Earring of Henry Morgan," which was another 1 pendant run.

But if you look at the last four runs from S2, L5 (the "Broken Wing of Icarus" production day included "Polynesian Girl," "Dolley Madison," and "Nostradamus"), you will notice that all of the guards were stationed in a cluster toward the outside of the temple. All of the guards were seen in the entrance rooms, central shaft, and King's Storeroom; there weren't any guards placed in the deep inner temple. Therefore, I think the guard placement mentioned above for "Broken Wing of Icarus" makes more sense, since it more closely aligns with the temple guard placements from the rest of that production day.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 02, 2013, 03:27:10 PM
"Bonnet of Dolley Madison" is up next.

Guards Encountered: Ledges, King's Storeroom
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Laser Light Room, Mandarin Hand, Secret Password

Notes: In the other thread, it appears that this run was rushed over, in that there weren't that many notes or details pertaining to this run. The only comments about this episode were that the Mandarin Hand and Secret Password were stronger possibilities than the Laser Light Room.

My Thoughts: The Laser Light Room seemed out of the way of the path, and I'm pretty sure that the Secret Password did not open from the Shrine. This leaves the Mandarin Hand as the only other room to potentially place a guard. It would have made a lot of sense to place the guard in the Mandarin Hand.

-- The door from the Observatory opened down to the Mandarin Hand when Matt aligned the stone column, and the door leading back to the Mandarin Hand from the King's Storeroom opened when Ashlie put the key in the correct pedestal. Since that entire triangular loop was open, it would not surprise me if there had been another guard in that loop. As I have noted previously in other Season 2 episodes, the producers seemed to love to put two guards in that three-room configuration whenever that whole loop was open. Placing a guard in the Mandarin Hand would have kept the temple guard placement for "Bonnet of Dolley Madison" within those same parameters.

-- And as I mentioned in the "Broken Wing of Icarus" comment, this production day saw all of the guards clustered toward the outside of the temple. "Levitating Dog Leash," "Broken Wing," and "Priceless Portrait" all saw guards in the Mandarin Hand. Therefore, it would make perfect sense to place the last guard for "Bonnet of Dolley Madison" in the Mandarin Hand Room, as opposed to the Laser Light Room or Secret Password.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 02, 2013, 03:28:41 PM
And to complete Season 2, let's look at "Priceless Portrait of the Polynesian Girl."

Guards Encountered: Crypt, Mandarin Hand, Observatory
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

All of the guards were encountered in this run, so there should not be any question as to where they were.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on February 02, 2013, 03:34:02 PM
I always thought the temple guards were in the Ledges and the Mine Shaft. I know the Laser Light room was supposedly open, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a temple placed in the Mine Shaft, ala "Henry Morgan."
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 02, 2013, 03:36:12 PM
I always thought the temple guards were in the Ledges and the Mine Shaft. I know the Laser Light room was supposedly open, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a temple placed in the Mine Shaft, ala "Henry Morgan."

Which run are you referring to? I'm guessing it's "Broken Wing of Icarus," but I'd like to be sure we're talking about the same episode. ;)
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on February 02, 2013, 03:41:29 PM
Yeah, I meant Icarus.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 02, 2013, 03:49:19 PM
I always thought the temple guards were in the Ledges and the Mine Shaft. I know the Laser Light room was supposedly open, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a temple placed in the Mine Shaft, ala "Henry Morgan."

Which run are you referring to? I'm guessing it's "Broken Wing of Icarus," but I'd like to be sure we're talking about the same episode. ;)

Yeah, I meant Icarus.

Having the guard in the Mineshaft in "Icarus" would make some sense because it would have similar to "Henry Morgan." The "Henry Morgan" run featured guards in the Laser Light Room and Mineshaft, and probably had the last guard stationed in the Ledges.

However, even though both episodes were 1 pendant runs from the same layout, the two episodes were filmed on different production days. Since the other episodes from the "Icarus" production day featured all of the guards in the outer temple (or can be deduced to have the unencountered guards in the outer temple), I think having a guard in the Mineshaft would have been very out of place.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on February 02, 2013, 04:13:31 PM
I believe the last guard in Dolley Madison was in the Room of the Mandarin Hand and here is why:

- Matt already encountered a temple guard and dead end in the Ledges. In other S2L5 like "Nathan Hale" and "Polynesian Girl", James and Scott encountered dead ends in the Ledges and were forced in the Crypt also. From there, they were forced into the upper rooms of the Pit and not granted entry to the bottom floor.

- The Room of the Mandarin Hand both opened from the Observatory AND King's Storeroom. So I assume that the Room of the Mandarin Hand would've opened from the Pit of Despair also. If this was the case, I don't think the producers would've allowed the Laser Light Room door to open because it was rare for all three doors to open in the Pit.

- The Room of the Secret Password door did not open from the Shrine. You can also see the elevator down in the Mine Shaft, meaning that the team was not meant to enter the Room of the Secret Password from the Shrine anyways.

So I assume that both the Laser Light Room and Secret Password were locked during this run. And this run also seems to mimic the "Benjamin Franklin" temple guard layout: Entrance room temple guard, avoidable center of the temple guard, and a forced guard in the King's Storeroom. In "Dolley Madison" though, Matt avoided the center of the room temple guard and encountered his first guard in the Ledges.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Silver Monkey on February 02, 2013, 04:35:09 PM
Jim, not Scott. And he never entered the Ledges. ;)
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on February 02, 2013, 06:28:16 PM
Yeah, Jim started in the Crypt, and never once went down to the Ledges. They weren't entered until Kristen entered there when time ran out. So "Priceless Portrait" can get skipped over because we already know where the three guards were. The Crypt being one of them.

As for Dolley Madison, the other temple guard probably was in the Room of the Mandarin Hand. Since the the door did open from the Observatory.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 02, 2013, 09:40:30 PM
It sounds like everyone is in consensus that the final guard for "Dolley Madison" was in the Mandarin Hand.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot319 on February 02, 2013, 10:36:05 PM
It sounds like everyone is in consensus that the final guard for "Dolley Madison" was in the Mandarin Hand.

Pretty much. I agree.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 03, 2013, 11:34:05 AM
It's time to begin the third season! I can't believe we are already starting Season 3!

Before we begin looking at this season's episodes, I would like to point out some important things about Season 3 that should help to identify where temple guards could and could not have been.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot319 on February 03, 2013, 11:44:48 AM
  • I have a hypothesis that in all of the episodes in which the Ledges were dark at the start of the run, there was a guard stationed there. Since the guard would have easily been seen by the contestants at the temple gate, they had to dim the lights in the Ledges in order to hide the guard better. NOTE: This hypothesis is not a contrapositive. There may have also been episodes where a guard was stationed in the Ledges with the lights on.

The temple guard in the Ledges for "The Dried Apple Half of William Tell" was hiding with the lights on I think.[/list]
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 03, 2013, 12:36:58 PM
  • I have a hypothesis that in all of the episodes in which the Ledges were dark at the start of the run, there was a guard stationed there. Since the guard would have easily been seen by the contestants at the temple gate, they had to dim the lights in the Ledges in order to hide the guard better. NOTE: This hypothesis is not a contrapositive. There may have also been episodes where a guard was stationed in the Ledges with the lights on.

The temple guard in the Ledges for "The Dried Apple Half of William Tell" was hiding with the lights on I think.

The "Dried Apple Half of William Tell" was the only episode in Season 3 to feature a team encounter a guard in the Ledges. While Olmec was telling Brett and Lauren about the temple guards and pendants, this was what the Ledges looked like (images courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf):




Notice that the lights in the Ledges had been dimmed so that the room was completely dark from the contestants' vantage point. Compare that image with this next one below, taken once Brett was in the Ledges:




The lights were turned on after Brett entered the temple, so that the Ledges were lit in their usual manner again. After he got taken out of the temple and Lauren entered the Ledges, the lights remained on. As Lauren was running up the steps into the temple, we can see that the Ledges were at their usual brightness once again (even from the contestants' vantage point at the temple gate):




So, as we can see from this sequence of images, the lights in the Ledges were off when the team had not yet entered the temple. Once the team first entered the Ledges, the lights in that room turned on so that the temple guard encounter could be seen. Once that guard was encountered, the lights in the Ledges remained on.


If you look at the other runs in which the lights in the Ledges were off at the start of the run ("Much-Heralded Helmet (ep 84)," "Mysterious Manuscript of Mary Shelley (ep 98)," "Lost Hornpipe of the Pirate Captain (ep 103)," "Jeweled Scabbard of Sforza (ep 117)," and "Good-Luck Watch of Empress Eugenie (ep 118)"), you will realize that those teams did NOT enter the Ledges en route to their artifacts, and the lights in the Ledges never turned on; i.e. they looked like the first picture from "Dried Apple Half of William Tell" for their entire runs. Notice that those episodes were taped on different production days, with some of those episodes coming in the middle of days where no other run saw the Ledges unlit. Because of this, we can assume that it was not simply a lighting malfunction, since that same lighting effect was used for all of those episodes scattered throughout the entire season. Furthermore, all of those runs saw only two or less encountered guards, meaning the third guard could have been- and most likely was- in the Ledges.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot319 on February 03, 2013, 12:57:05 PM
Oh, the lights turned on once a player entered the temple. Correct?
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 03, 2013, 01:26:28 PM
Oh, the lights turned on once a player entered the temple. Correct?

In the episodes aforementioned, the Ledges were left unlit until a contestant entered the Ledges. The only time this happened was "Dried Apple Half of William Tell." In the other five episodes, the lights in the Ledges remained off the entire because the team never entered that room en route to their artifact.

In every other Season 3 episode, the Ledges were lit as soon as they cut back from the final commercial break, and they left the lights on in the Ledges for the entire rest of the episode.

And all of the other rooms, besides the Ledges, were always lit the whole time in every Season 3 episode.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 03, 2013, 11:53:24 PM
Let's kick off Season 3 with "Bifocal Monocle of One-Eyed Jack."

Guards Encountered: Ancient Warriors (armor 3), King's Storeroom
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Secret Password, Quicksand Bog, Dark Forest, Jesters' Court, Ledges

Notes: Most people suggested the last guard was either in the Quicksand Bog or Dark Forest, but nobody made any conclusive decisions since the team did not make it that far into the temple.

My Thoughts: Since Thomas found the half pendant in the Tomb of the Headless Kings, we know that the last guard had to be further into the temple, eliminating the Ledges as an option.

-- The Jesters' Court never held a guard, so that room can also be eliminated.

-- Given the nature of the guard locations from the "Comet-Embroidered Battle Flag" and "War Fan" runs, it would make sense for the last guard in "Bifocal Monocle" to be in the room prior to the artifact, a number of rooms after the second guard. I am not too sure that the Dark Forest would have given immediate access to the Shrine, and I'm not sure that the producers would have forced the team up into the Secret Password, so my best guess is that the Quicksand Bog held the final guard.

-- At no point after Olmec's temple rundown (even in the final credits) do we see the Dark Forest or Quicksand Bog, so we cannot see if the arms of the trees or the piling of Styrofoam blocks in the Bog were unusual, to hint that a guard was located there. Still, my gut instinct is telling me that the Quicksand Bog held the final guard due to the temple guard placements from the proceeding episodes' runs.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 04, 2013, 08:43:57 AM
Next is "Comet-Embroidered Battle Flag of William the Conqueror."

Guards Encountered: Crypt, Ancient Warriors (armor 2), Tomb of the Headless Kings
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

All of the guards were encountered during this run, so there should not be any question as to where they were.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 04, 2013, 10:14:46 AM
We have made it to one of the most controversial episodes of this topic: "War Fan of the Forty-Seven Ronin."

Guards Encountered: Crypt, Secret Password
Number of Unencountered: 1
Rooms not Entered: King's Storeroom, Ancient Warriors (armors 2 and 3), Dark Forest, Jesters' Court, Ledges

Notes: I was able to compile two pages of comments about the "War Fan" run. There are so many possible rooms that everybody has a different opinion. Some people believed the last guard was in the Ledges, while others were skeptical because that would have placed a guard in both entrance rooms. Not all of the armors were tried in the Ancient Warriors, so some people think one of the wrong armors held a guard; still, this only happened on a few occasions. Other people suggested that the Dark Forest held the final guard, some people claim that room is unlikely because then not all of the guards could have been encountered along a single path.

My Thoughts: The team was not given access to the King's Storeroom or Jesters' Court at any point during this run, and the Jesters' Court never held a guard anyways, so both of those rooms can be eliminated from consideration.

-- When Olmec is telling the team about the temple guards and pendants, there is a little bit of light coming from the Ledges. However, when Olmec lowers the gate after the prize sequence, the Ledges appear dark. Also, there is a brief instance when Elise is first entering the temple where the Ledges are shown. At that point, the Ledges are also dark. The two images are provided below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf. Even though there was only one other instance where there may have been a guard in both entrance rooms (Sforza), there is no reason why this run could not have seen that configuration as well. Jeremy only tried two of the skeletons in the Crypt, so it is possible that the last skeleton would have opened the door to the Ledges.






-- I don't think there was a guard in the Ancient Warriors, since there were only two instances where the guard was placed in an inactive headdress: Chandragupta and Ivan the Terrible. In both of those episodes, the guard was placed in the armor nearest the room the team had entered from. Since Jeremy entered the room from the Chamber of the Sacred Markers, it would have been most likely that a guard would have been placed in the rightmost armor, if there was going to be a guard in that room at all. He tried that armor, and there was clearly not a guard in that armor. For this reason, I am going to disregard the Ancient Warriors as a viable option.

-- The Dark Forest opened when Jeremy completed the Silver Monkey. I have provided an image below as proof, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf:




-- Since the Secret Password and Dark Forest both opened from the Shrine, it is quite possible that this was a divergent path, where both routes would have led to the Quicksand Bog. Seeing as how there were no dead-ends in Season 3 with the exception of "Bifocal Monocle of One-Eyed Jack," it would not have made sense for either room to be a dead end. Also, it was very common in 1 pendant runs in Season 3 to feature some sort of divergent pathway. Sometimes this meant two doors opening in the Pit, but in "War Fan," only the Tomb of the Headless Kings opened from the Pit. Instead, the divergent set of doors appeared in the Shrine. The last guard easily could have been in the Dark Forest since that was the only divergent path available to the team (aside from which entrance room to enter).

-- Having a guard in the Dark Forest would have played out similarly to "Thornwood Gavel of Judge Roy Bean," where the divergent pathways each held a guard somewhere along the route. The only way to encounter both guards would have been if the frontrunner took one of the paths, and then the second runner chose to take the other path (like Kelli detouring to the King's Storeroom when Mike had cleared the Tomb/Chamber). So, as you can see, it was not always necessary for all three guards to be on a single path. For this reason, the Dark Forest is another credible place for the last guard to have been.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on February 04, 2013, 03:54:39 PM
I always thought the Dark Forest was where the third guard was in the "War Fan" run. It could have served as a dead end guard, to punish the team for taking a wrong turn.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 04, 2013, 04:16:08 PM
I always thought the Dark Forest was where the third guard was in the "War Fan" run. It could have served as a dead end guard, to punish the team for taking a wrong turn.

I don't think the Dark Forest would have been a dead end in "War Fan." Since the only episode of Season 3 to contain a dead end was "Bifocal Monocle," the very first run of the season, I don't think there would have been any other dead ends in any other Season 3 run. Instead, I think the Dark Forest would have served as a diverging, second route from the Shrine that would have led to the Quicksand Bog.

If Jeremy decided to go down into the Dark Forest instead of the Secret Password, it is very likely that the left tree would have held the guard, so that he could not plow through the wall. Once he got captured, Elise would have had to follow his path. If she followed Jeremy's path into the Dark Forest, she would have been given access to the Quicksand Bog. However, if she strayed and went into the Secret Password, her run would have ended in triple capture.

It's the same idea as what happened in "Thornwood Gavel of Judge Roy Bean," except Kelli had a whole pendant, so when she strayed into the King's Storeroom, she was allowed to continue.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on February 04, 2013, 04:50:48 PM
I don't think that it would be considered that far of a reach to consider the Dark Forest a deadend in the "War Fan" run. Both "Bifocal Monocle" and "War Fan" runs were produced on the same day. The producers have a tendency to make the temple layouts on the same day to be quite similar in a way. Just look how the Ivan the Terrible/William Tell/Mary Shelley/Robert the Bruce day panned out with almost all of them having brutal layouts. Or how the last production day of S3 having temple layouts that were favorable towards the contestants.

But you do bring up a good point about the Judge Roy Bean layout, PP4L. It could be possible that the Dark Forest and Secret Password both unlocked to the Quicksand Bog. Just in case maybe one of the players were inattentive and enter the other room like Jared did in the "Imperial Wizard" temple run. As for the War Fan run, I am kind of hesitant to consider the Ledges to be the other possibility. I still think "Sforza" was the only run that employed the "double entrance room" guard trick. But since this is S3 now, I don't consider this possibility to farfetched now.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 04, 2013, 05:10:04 PM
I don't think that it would be considered that far of a reach to consider the Dark Forest a deadend in the "War Fan" run. Both "Bifocal Monocle" and "War Fan" runs were produced on the same day. The producers have a tendency to make the temple layouts on the same day to be quite similar in a way. Just look how the Ivan the Terrible/William Tell/Mary Shelley/Robert the Bruce day panned out with almost all of them having brutal layouts. Or how the last production day of S3 having temple layouts that were favorable towards the contestants.

While I understand that most production days were usually rather consistent in their temple guard placements and and layouts, none of the temple guard placements or layouts from that first Season 3 production day were that similar:

BIFOCAL MONOCLE: Guards in the Ancient Warriors, King's Storeroom, and possibly the Quicksand Bog. Featured a two-room-long dead end and a bit of backtracking. Only Shrine run that forced the team to begin in the Chamber of the Sacred Markers (and therefore, one of the longest paths forced for a Shrine run).
COMET-EMBROIDERED BATTLE FLAG: Guards in the Crypt, Tomb of the Headless Kings, and Ancient Warriors. All guards forced. A rather long but straight-forward path, which was seen in a few other Center of the Rooms/Observatory runs.
WAR FAN: Guards in the Crypt, Secret Password, and possibly the Dark Forest. Path forced the team from the Tomb of the Headless Kings to the Chamber, then straight across the top floor (identical to "Judge Roy Bean," except the King's Storeroom did not open). Featured a late diverging path from the Shrine.
MUCH-HERALDED HELMET: No guards encountered, but probably in the Ledges, Chamber, and Secret Password or King's Storeroom. A very straight-forward path that offered a shortcut from the Shrine to Dark Forest. Minimal number of rooms entered in order to reach the Jesters' Court.

Considering the great variety in paths, path difficulties, and temple guard placements seen during this production day, it is not imperative that the Dark Forest had to be a dead end in the "War Fan" run just because the "Bifocal Monocle" run had a dead end in it.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on February 04, 2013, 06:42:32 PM
Just look how the Ivan the Terrible/William Tell/Mary Shelley/Robert the Bruce day panned out with almost all of them having brutal layouts.
Robert the Bruce wasn't on the Discarded Seal filming day. Hans Holbein was.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 04, 2013, 10:36:25 PM
Up next is the equally controversial "Much-Heralded Helmet of Sir Gawain."

Guards Encountered: NONE
Number of Unencountered Guards: 3
Rooms Not Entered: King's Storeroom, Secret Password, Quicksand Bog, Tomb of the Headless Kings, Ledges

Notes: In the past, some people believed "there was a guard in the Chamber, but since the cover didn't go up when Tiffani completed, despite the flash of light that normally accompanies it, the guard couldn't capture her." The other two guard locations were not discussed at length, though some people thought there may have been a guard in the Quicksand Bog or Secret Password.

My Thoughts: Tiffani tried all three armors in the Ancient Warriors and tried both trees in the Dark Forest, so we don't need to worry about guards potentially being in those rooms.

-- The "Much-Heralded Helmet" is one of the aforementioned runs which featured the darkened Ledges. Even when Tiffani was climbing out of the Ledges upon her exit, the Ledges were pitch black. Due to this lighting effect, I think one of the guards was stationed there.

-- Another reason I find this run especially interesting is because the lights flashed and the sound effect played in the Chamber of the Sacred Markers to make it seem as though the cover/door leading to the King's Storeroom should have opened. No other run saw the flash of light and sound effect without the cover sliding up. Also, the half pendant was located above the left-hand column of markers in the room. The only times the half pendant was located there was when the cover slid up and the team either was forced up to the King's Storeroom from the Chamber, or was forced down from the King's Storeroom to the Chamber. For these reason, I believe that door was meant to open. And even though there were a few episodes that saw that door open without a temple guard behind the cover, I can only think of one (maybe two) instances; nearly every time that cover slid up, a guard was positioned behind it. It seems much more likely that there was a guard waiting behind that door, but since the cover never went up, he could not make the capture.

-- As far as the third guard goes, I cannot make an ultimate decision, but I can confidently say that the final guard was either in the King's Storeroom or Secret Password. I am eliminating the Tomb of the Headless Kings from consideration because the team did not have access to it during the run; only the Chamber opened from the Pit, and the door leading down from the Chamber to the Tomb of the Headless Kings should not have opened since it would have only led to a dead end, which would not have happened. I am also eliminating the Quicksand Bog from consideration because it is clear in the image provided below that the piling of Styrofoam blocks was not situated in the same way as when there was a guard in the room. Image courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf:




-- The image above also a provides a basis on which to understand why the Secret Password may have held the final guard. Once Tiffani completes the Silver Monkey, the doors to the Dark Forest and Secret Password open. The camera begins to sweep into the Secret Password before swinging back toward the Dark Forest to follow Tiffani. It seemed as if the cameraman was anticipating that she would go into the Secret Password. That seems a bit suspicious to me, even though it is but a minor point.

-- The King's Storeroom was not accessible through the path that Tiffani took, but had the cover opened in the Chamber of the Sacred Markers, then she would have been given access to the room, which would have ultimately led down to the Ancient Warriors anyway. Having guards back-to-back in the Chamber and King's Storeroom was seen in "Upside-Down Compass of Henry Hudson," so it would not be out of the question to have that temple guard combination.


So overall, my best guess is that the guards were in the Ledges, Chamber of the Sacred Markers, and either the King's Storeroom or Secret Password.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 05, 2013, 10:40:13 PM
Next on the list is "Lion-Headed Bracelet of Chandragupta."

Guards Encountered: Ancient Warriors (armor 1)
Number of Unencountered Guards: 2
Rooms not Entered: Crypt, Chamber of the Sacred Markers, Dark Forest, Jesters' Court, Tomb of the Headless Kings

Notes: In the past thread, there was not much discussion about this run either. One person suggested the last two guards were in the Crypt and Dark Forest.

My Thoughts: I agree that the Crypt and Dark Forest would have been the best two places for the guards to have been placed. Only the King's Storeroom opened from the Pit, and only the Ancient Warriors opened from the King's Storeroom. For this reason, the Chamber, Headless Kings, and Jesters' Court were inaccessible.

-- The Crypt was accessible because it was an entrance room. It is not clear if the Crypt would have only led down to the Ledges, or if the Pit would have been accessible directly from the Crypt as well. Either way, though, it does not matter because it was one of the only two unentered accessible rooms for the two remaining guards to have been placed.

-- Just like in "War Fan of the Forty-Seven Ronin," both the Secret Password and Dark Forest opened from the Shrine. In the "Lion-Headed Bracelet," however, there was not a guard in the Secret Password. Still, since the Dark Forest was the only other unentered accessible room, I am guessing that the last guard for "Lion-Headed Bracelet" was in the Dark Forest in the left tree. When Andrea exits the Quicksand Bog with the Bracelet, she kind of trips and falls, grabbing onto the left tree's right arm. The arm's movement coincides with her grabbing it. However, it is interesting that as Andrea is exiting the room and the left tree is nearly out of the camera's frame, that arm twitches again, even though Andrea is clearly no longer anywhere near the tree. This is further evidence that there was a guard in the Dark Forest.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 06, 2013, 03:59:47 PM
Up next is "Lion-Slashed Jacket of Sacajawea."

Guards Encountered: Tomb of the Headless Kings (interestingly it came from the back door rather than waiting in the front corner of the room), King's Storeroom (as a side note, did anyone else think that guard went a bit over the top in how excited he was to capture Lauren?)
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Quicksand Bog, Dark Forest, Jesters' Court, Ledges

Notes: There were a number of people who thought the piling of Styrofoam blocks in the Quicksand Bog was evidence of there being a guard in that room. Other people believed the last guard had to be in the Ledges. Some people also suggested the Dark Forest as a possible room to hold the last guard.

My Thoughts: Mike found the half pendant above the left-hand column of markers in the Chamber of the Sacred Markers.

-- Mike tried all of the armors in the Ancient Warriors, and the Jesters' Court never held a guard, so those rooms can easily be eliminated from consideration.




-- The image above, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf, was taken during the unique "Sacajawea" temple rundown. It is clear that the piling of Styrofoam blocks was not high enough or organized in the right way to be concealing a temple guard. Furthermore, I don't believe that the "Sacajawea" team would have been forced back down into the Dark Forest/Quicksand Bog because when time ran out at the end of this run, Kirk said they were just one room away. He probably would not have said that if the team was going to be forced down into the Dark Forest or Quicksand Bog, since then the Jacket would not have been one room away. I don't think that Kirk's saying "one room away" would have been a Fogg-up, either, since this team scaled the entire central shaft en route to the artifact; the "Aurangzeb" and "Imperial Wizard" teams, who were the only Season 3 teams that had to go down into the Quicksand Bog in order to enter the Secret Password, did not have to scale the whole central shaft in their runs. Forcing the "Sacajawea" team to scale the whole central shaft and additionally enter the Quicksand Bog would have been unusually grueling, especially considering the paths for the other runs from its production day.

-- Even though the only room left is the Ledges, I am slightly skeptical of a guard being in that room as well. The image below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf, shows that the Ledges were well-lit and a guard was not easily seen as being at the top or in the depths of the Ledges during the credits. Still, I think that the Ledges makes more sense as the room to house the final guard.


Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on February 06, 2013, 05:10:52 PM
The Green Monkeys in "Sacagawea" were already forced up the central shaft enroute to the artifact. It would be pretty brutal to force them down into the Quicksand Bog. Plus, all three guards would've been pretty much forced if that was the case. But then again, that pretty much happened in the "Lost Taj Mahal Turban" temple run where all three guards were forced and the team had 1.5 pendants. I do think the last guard was in the Ledges too.

As for Kirk and the whole one room away thing, I only take what Kirk says with a grain of salt. He was the same one who told Elise that she could just slide down from the Secret Password in the "War Fan" run.  :roll:
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 06, 2013, 05:24:50 PM
The Green Monkeys in "Sacagawea" were already forced up the central shaft enroute to the artifact. It would be pretty brutal to force them down into the Quicksand Bog. Plus, all three guards would've been pretty much forced if that was the case. But then again, that pretty much happened in the "Lost Taj Mahal Turban" temple run where all three guards were forced and the team had 1.5 pendants. I do think the last guard was in the Ledges too.

The "Lost Taj Mahal Turban" team only entered the Chamber and King's Storeroom. They did not enter the Tomb of the Headless Kings, so they did not scale the whole central shaft. And yes, all three guards in that run were forced. While having all three guards be forced is a possible scenario for "Sacajawea," I find it unlikely.

As for Kirk and the whole one room away thing, I only take what Kirk says with a grain of salt. He was the same one who told Elise that she could just slide down from the Secret Password in the "War Fan" run.  :roll:

Fair enough. However, I cannot recall Kirk ever saying that a team had to enter more rooms than necessary, besides the times when he thought Jonathan ("William the Conqueror") and Gator ("Apanuugpak") were both heading for the King's Storeroom, when in reality they were both going directly to the Chamber of the Sacred Markers.


Another thing I'd like to mention about the "Sacajawea" run is that after Lauren pulls the books in the Crypt, she runs into the Pit of the Pendulum, but the cameraman points the camera down to the ladder leading into the Ledges. That camerawork gives me a fairly certain feeling that the Ledges held the last guard in the "Sacajawea" run.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 06, 2013, 07:36:47 PM
Now we turn our attention to "Secret Map of the Bandit Queen."

Guards Encountered: Tomb of the Headless Kings, Dark Forest (left tree)
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: King's Storeroom, Chamber of the Sacred Markers, Ancient Warriors, Ledges

Notes: Most people believed the final guard was in the Chamber because that door, along with the door to the Tomb of the Headless Kings, opened from the Pit. Some people suggested the Ledges as another option.

My Thoughts: I agree that the last guard would have been in the Chamber of the Sacred Markers.

-- In most 1 pendant runs (and also some other 1.5 and 2 pendants runs) from Season 3, multiple doors opened from the Pit of the Pendulum, and there were guards stationed along both segments of that split path. Take "Useless Map of the Chibcha Chieftain," for example. In "Secret Map of the Bandit Queen," the doors opened to the Chamber and Tomb of the Headless Kings, and we know that the Headless Kings allowed access to the rest of the bottom floor. Therefore, the team could have entered the Chamber, which would have led them down to the Tomb of the Headless Kings, or they could have gone directly into the Tomb. By choosing the latter, Miriam and Zac avoided the "detour segment" of the path, as well as the third guard.

-- I have included an image of the Pit after Miriam knocked over the column, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf. You can clearly see that both doors opened. Based on the series of open doors and the path this team took, it should be clear that the Chamber of the Sacred Markers would have been the extra segment of the path that would have held the other guard.




-- And for those who still have inklings that the Ledges may have held the final guard, I have provided an image of the Ledges, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf. The room is brightly lit, and there isn't any hint or trace of a temple guard in the room.


Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 06, 2013, 10:49:35 PM
"Thornwood Gavel of Judge Roy Bean" is up now.

Guards Encountered: King's Storeroom, Chamber of the Sacred Markers, Room of the Secret Password
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

All of the guards were encountered during this run, even though they all could not be met on one single path.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 06, 2013, 11:32:58 PM
Next on the list is "Snow Cone of Mount Kilimanjaro."

Guards Encountered: Tomb of the Headless Kings, Dark Forest (right tree)
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: King's Storeroom, Chamber of the Sacred Markers, Ancient Warriors, Shrine, Secret Password, Quicksand Bog, Ledges

Notes: There was only very brief discussion about this episode; it seemed like this run was forgotten about. The only comment regarding this run claimed that the guard was in the Quicksand Bog, since there was a suspicious piling of Styrofoam blocks in the room.

My Thoughts: The half pendant can be seen in the Jesters' Court, on the door leading to the Dark Forest. I have provided an image below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf. The image of the half pendant is a little blurry, but if you go back and watch the video, the half pendant can clearly be seen there every time the camera shows that doorway.




-- Unlike the past users, I don't think that the last guard was in the Quicksand Bog. The image below was taken during the final seconds of the run, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf. The Styrofoam blocks are clearly not stacked that high, nor are they organized in a pile like when a guard was in the room. Also, considering the half pendant was in the Jesters' Court, my guess is that the only guard after the half pendant was the one in the Dark Forest.




-- The Ledges were well-lit, and the Secret Password was quite out of the way of the path, so I doubt a guard would have been in either of those rooms.

-- When Casey kicked over the column in the Pit of the Pendulum, both the Tomb of the Headless Kings and the King's Storeroom opened. A supplemental image is provided below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf. It would not surprise me if the last guard was in either the King's Storeroom or the Chamber of the Sacred Markers, since it was common for a guard to be stationed in one of the extraneous rooms of a detour/split path.




-- I am hesitant to place a guard in the Shrine because the "one room away" guard was not as prominent in Season 3. Additionally, if the guard was in the Shrine, then this team would have been forced to find the half pendant in order for the run to not end in triple capture, regardless of whether they went up to the King's Storeroom or directly into the Tomb of the Headless Kings. I find that scenario hard to believe.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on February 07, 2013, 03:46:26 PM
Now that I think about it now, I definitely think the last guard in "Kilimanjaro" would've been in the King's Storeroom or Chamber of the Secret Password. The producers would not just open up two additional rooms without there being a temple guard in one of them. It would be basically be like the "Useless Map" run but only this time the team is forced down the central shaft and not up it. In the Useless Map run, the temple guards were in the Tomb of the Headless Kings and King's Storeroom. In the Snow Cone run, the central shaft would basicaly be the opposite with the King's Storeroom detouring the team downwards.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 07, 2013, 04:12:11 PM
Now that I think about it now, I definitely think the last guard in "Kilimanjaro" would've been in the King's Storeroom or Chamber of the Secret Password. The producers would not just open up two additional rooms without there being a temple guard in one of them. It would be basically be like the "Useless Map" run but only this time the team is forced down the central shaft and not up it. In the Useless Map run, the temple guards were in the Tomb of the Headless Kings and King's Storeroom. In the Snow Cone run, the central shaft would basicaly be the opposite with the King's Storeroom detouring the team downwards.

Chamber of the Secret Password... now that would have made for a very interesting room...  :P

But in all seriousness, it would make the most sense to have placed a guard in "Kilimanjaro" in one of those upper central shaft rooms since the door leading to the Pit allowed access to the King's Storeroom. It was very common in Season 3 for a guard to be placed somewhere along the extra rooms of a divergent path. Now the biggest question is, was it the King's Storeroom or the "Chamber of the Secret Password"?

-- In the other Season 3 episodes where the teams were forced down the whole central shaft ("Dried Apple Half" and "Belle Boyd"), there was ever only a guard in the Tomb of the Headless Kings. Even though the "Kilimanjaro" run would have broken the pattern if the last guard really was in the upper central shaft, I still think that was the best place for him to be.

-- There were many Season 3 runs where the team scaled the entire central shaft by ascending; among those runs are "Chibcha Chieftain," "Pirate Captain," and "Sacajawea." A common temple guard combination for those runs was the Chamber/Ancient Warriors and the Tomb/King's Storeroom. Even though the "Kilimanjaro" team would have been trekking the central shaft in the opposite direction, I still think that those same temple guard combinations would have been used. Therefore, I think the King's Storeroom would have been more likely than the Chamber to hold the final guard in the "Kilimanjaro" run.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot319 on February 07, 2013, 04:14:18 PM
Honestly, that box pile in the Quicksand Bog looks big enough to put a temple guard in it. After noticing it a long time ago, I always thought the last guard was in there.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 07, 2013, 07:26:35 PM
Honestly, that box pile in the Quicksand Bog looks big enough to put a temple guard in it. After noticing it a long time ago, I always thought the last guard was in there.

Compare the image from "Kilimanjaro" with this image below, taken from "Lost Taj Mahal Turban of Aurangzeb," which we know had a guard in the Quicksand Bog (image courtesy video posted on youtube.com ChargerTheWolf). The Styrofoam boxes in the "Aurangzeb" run were piled much higher and more uniformly to conceal the guard.


Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on February 07, 2013, 08:26:16 PM
I use to think the last guard in "Snow Cone" was also in the Quicksand Bog. But now I really think it was in the King's Storeroom or Chamber of the Sacred Markers. If Casey went up into the King's Storeroom, he would've been forced down into the Tomb of the Headless Kings. This was basically a longer path for the Silver Snakes if they started in the King's Storeroom. It is basically similar to certain runs like Madame Tussaud, Egyptian King, Useless Map, and Pirate Captain (the King's Storeroom should've been accessible) where starting in the bottom of the central shaft meant a longer route and additional temple guards. I believe the "Benzibab" temple run also mimicked the Kilimanjaro layout. But we will save that one for later. ;)
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on February 07, 2013, 08:35:39 PM
Yeah, the third temple guard had to be in the King's Storeroom, since that door also opened from the Pit. Also, aren't half pendants supposed to be room away from the "third" temple guard? The half pendant that's clearly in the Jester's Court would imply that.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on February 07, 2013, 08:43:01 PM
Yeah, the third temple guard had to be in the King's Storeroom, since that door also opened from the Pit. Also, aren't half pendants supposed to be room away from the "third" temple guard? The half pendant that's clearly in the Jester's Court would imply that.

Yeah, a lot of temple runs in Season 3 had the half-pendant before the location of the third guard. It certainly would make sense in context with the "Snow Cone" runs. But there were a couple of temple runs in S3 where the half-pendant was located before even one temple guard encounter. The two temple runs that come to mind is "The Golden Spider Web Robert the Bruce" and "The Mystical Spellbook of the Imperial Wizard". In those temple runs, the half-pendant was located in the Pit of the Pendulum. But all three temple guards were encountered after the location of the half-pendant. Plus, the second runners made the same mistake in those runs where they both missed the half-pendant in the Pit.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot319 on February 07, 2013, 08:45:16 PM
Imperial Wizard was a 2 pendant run. ;)
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on February 07, 2013, 08:46:31 PM
Yeah, the Green Monkeys swept the temple games in Imperial Wizard. So that doesn't work at all.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on February 07, 2013, 08:47:22 PM
Oops, I meant the "Lost Taj Mahal Turban" temple run.  :oops: Those temple runs have identical temple layouts and artifact location. Except the Imperial Wizard team only encounter two guards. Not to mention, the runs both ended in the Quicksand Bog,
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 07, 2013, 09:12:00 PM
Yeah, the "Robert the Bruce" and "Aurangzeb" runs both saw a half pendant before the first guard. But there were other Season 3 runs where the half pendant was after the first guard, and there were other runs where it was placed after the second guard. It was very likely that the Dark Forest guard was the final guard in the "Snow Cone of Mount Kilimanjaro" since the half pendant was located unusually deep in the temple for a Season 3 run. And again, the second door opening in the Pit to the King's Storeroom solidifies my belief that the last guard was in that room instead of the Quicksand Bog.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 07, 2013, 09:29:46 PM
Next up is "Upside-Down Compass of Henry Hudson."

Guards Encountered: Chamber of the Sacred Markers, King's Storeroom, Ancient Warriors (armor 1)
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

All of the guards were encountered during this run, so there should not be any question as to where they were.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 07, 2013, 09:56:27 PM
Next on the list is "Bent Shaving Pan of Jedidiah Smith."

Guards Encountered: Tomb of the Headless Kings, Ancient Warriors (armor 2)
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Ledges, Quicksand Bog, Secret Password, Chamber of the Sacred Markers

Notes: The Ledges and Quicksand Bog were brought up as possible locations for the final guard.

My Thoughts: The half pendant in the "Bent Shaving Pan" was on the door leading from the Jesters' Court to the Dark Forest. An image is provided below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf.




-- The Chamber of the Sacred Markers did not open from the Pit, and the Secret Password seemed to be very out of the way in this run, so I don't think either of those rooms held the final guard.

-- I think that of the Ledges and Quicksand Bog, the Ledges makes more sense to hold the last guard. The half pendant was in the Jesters' Court, and the only way the second runner would have seen it would have been if he was the one to activate the blacklight in the room. Once the blacklight was activated, it would have been far too dark to first search for a half pendant in that room. Therefore, I think there were two guard prior to the half pendant. The only place to put the last guard in that case is in the Ledges. Additionally, during the credits the Ledges appear to be a bit darker in lighting than usual. Image courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf.


Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on February 08, 2013, 03:12:36 PM
I think it was in the Ledges also. This temple layout reminds me exactly of the "Annie Oakley" temple layout where the team met a guard at the bottom of the central shaft and one room away. If the team entered the Ledges from the start, then they would've have to worry about the one room away guard thing. Kind of an unfair temple layout for Season 3, but Irish was so slow anyways, so they had no chance to win either way.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 08, 2013, 05:22:02 PM
"Marble Armrest of Xerxes" is up now.

Guards Encountered: Tomb of the Headless Kings, Quicksand Bog
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Secret Password, Shrine, Ancient Warriors, King's Storeroom

Notes: Nobody had any specific locations as to where the last guard might have been.

My Thoughts: The half pendant was located on the door leading from the Jesters' Court to the Dark Forest. Why Noelle signals to the center Jesters' Court painting, I will never know. But since all of the rooms prior to the half pendant were entered, we know that there were two guards beyond the half pendant. Furthermore, the final guard had to be on the top floor.

-- There was no way to avoid the Tomb of the Headless Kings because it was the only room that opened from the Pit. Also, there wasn't a key in the Dark Forest, so Noelle was forced to encounter the guard in the Quicksand Bog. Since both of those guards were forced, the final guard probably could have been avoidable, even though there were a few runs (particularly 1.5 pendant runs in Season 3) where all of the guard encounters were forced.

-- Since this Center of the Rooms run featured a clockwise path, I don't think the King's Storeroom would have been accessible from the Ancient Warriors. Therefore, the only other place an avoidable guard could have been was in one of the Ancient Warriors. The Ancient Warriors held guards in a number of other Center of the Rooms/King's Storeroom runs that featured a clockwise path. Also, we know that there were instances where a guard was stationed in an inactive armor (Chandragupta and Ivan the Terrible), so it would not have been far-fetched to have a guard stationed like that for "Xerxes." Since the inactive armor guards were stationed in the armor nearest the room the contestant entered from, I would guess that, if the guard had been in the Ancient Warriors, then it would have been in the far-left headdress.

-- If all three guards were meant to be forced, then I think that the final guard would have been in the Shrine. It was common for the guards to be spaced out every-other-room, or just about every-other-room, and that pattern was seen in most episodes. The Shrine did not open from the Quicksand Bog, so the Secret Password would have served as the gap room between the Quicksand Bog guard and the final guard in "Xerxes."
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 08, 2013, 11:12:30 PM
The next episode is "Smashed Printing Plate of Frederick Douglass."

Guards Encountered: Ancient Warriors (armor 1), Dark Forest (left tree)
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Crypt, King's Storeroom, Jesters' Court

Notes: There was not a whole lot of discussion about this run, but it was thought that either the Crypt or King's Storeroom held the last guard.

My Thoughts: The Jesters' Court never held a guard, so that only leaves the Crypt and King's Storeroom as viable options.

-- Since the King's Storeroom and Chamber of the Sacred Markers both opened from the Pit, it is my guess that the King's Storeroom held the final guard. As I've stated for past Season 3 episodes, when multiple doors opened from the Pit, there was almost always a guard stationed somewhere along the extra rooms in the path. Jason went from the Chamber to the Ancient Warriors, bypassing the King's Storeroom. Therefore, the King's Storeroom was the extra room in the path, and hence it should have held the last guard. A supplemental photo is provided below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf, showing the doors opened from the Pit.


Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 09, 2013, 11:19:48 AM
Next on the list is "Mystical Spellbook of the Imperial Wizard."

Guards Encountered: Ancient Warriors (armor 1), Quicksand Bog
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Chamber of the Sacred Markers, Jesters' Court, Tomb of the Headless Kings

Notes: Yet again, there was little discussion about this episode. One person suggested the Chamber of the Sacred Markers, while another person suggested the Tomb of the Headless Kings.

My Thoughts: Since the Jesters' Court never held a guard, the last guard had to be in one of the other rooms.

-- Just like in the "Smashed Printing Plate" run from the episode prior, both the Chamber and King's Storeroom opened from the Pit, only this time, the team chose to go into the King's Storeroom and skip the Chamber. Since the Tomb of the Headless Kings was not accessible and the Chamber was accessible but unentered, my guess is that the Chamber of the Sacred Markers held the guard. I have provided an image below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf, showing that the two doors opened from the Pit:


Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on February 09, 2013, 01:23:52 PM
I am not sure why someone suggested that the other temple guard was in the Tomb of the Headless Kings in the Imperial Wizard run. Unless they thought that the door from the Chamber would open downwards into that room. I highly doubt that was the case though. And usually, one of the central shaft rooms are always guarded in Season 3. So I think that the last guard was in the Chamber for sure in this temple run.

Kind of off-topic, but I think Jared should've entered the Chamber and meet his first temple guard there and then get taken out in the Room of the Ancient Warrior. That would probably give Katie more than enough time to reach the Mystical Spellbook and maybe bring it out. She probably wouldn't have wasted time in the Dark Forest like Jared did.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 09, 2013, 01:34:56 PM
Kind of off-topic, but I think Jared should've entered the Chamber and meet his first temple guard there and then get taken out in the Room of the Ancient Warrior. That would probably give Katie more than enough time to reach the Mystical Spellbook and maybe bring it out. She probably wouldn't have wasted time in the Dark Forest like Jared did.

Having Jared enter the Chamber and get taken out of the temple sooner probably would have been beneficial for the team. Katie seemed to know what she was doing, and she moved very quickly and swiftly. It only took her 45 seconds to get all the way across the temple, which included climbing up the wall in the Pit. I'd imagine she would have had a good shot at getting to the Mystical Spellbook if Jared had been taken out earlier and if she went directly into the Quicksand Bog.

Still, one must consider that more time would have been spent completing the Chamber of the Sacred Markers, so it is not guaranteed that they truly would have been better off.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot319 on February 09, 2013, 01:40:18 PM
Here's another thing to consider. What if the King's Storeroom was the only door to open from the Chamber? That would've made this run almost impossible to win.

However, I will agree that the Chamber held the other temple guard.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on February 09, 2013, 01:46:02 PM
I didn't think about that possibility either. If the Chamber detoured into the King's Storeroom, then I say that Katie should've gone into te temple first. She probably wouldn't have taken that long to get out of the Pit and get taken out in the Quicksand Bog. And with Jared simply following up on Katie's path, there was no reason whatsoever to enter the Dark Forest. But it was a pretty tough layout.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 09, 2013, 01:58:26 PM
Here's another thing to consider. What if the King's Storeroom was the only door to open from the Chamber? That would've made this run almost impossible to win.

Yes, the Chamber most likely only led up to the King's Storeroom. And my previous comment about Jared using up more time to complete the Chamber accounted for that scenario. It would have played out similarly to "Melted Head of Madame Tussaud" and "Useless Map of the Chibcha Chieftain," along with countless other Season 3 episodes. Taking the bottom entrance would have ended up added extra rooms to a path that ultimately would have met up with the upper entrance in the King's Storeoom, whereas taking the upper entrance would have bypassed those extra rooms and a guard.

I believe that in order to maximize the success of the "Mystical Spellbook" run, Jared should have gone into the temple first. He would have been best off entering the Chamber, losing his pendant to the guard in that room, heading up to the King's Storeroom, and then getting captured and taken out of the temple in the Room of the Ancient Warriors. Then, Katie could have quickly followed the path to the Ancient Warriors, possibly bypassing the Chamber by heading straight to the King's Storeroom from the Pit. I think she would have assembled the Silver Monkey without too much difficulty. Then she could have gone down into the Quicksand Bog and back up the slide to the Secret Password.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on February 09, 2013, 03:50:23 PM
Yeah, Jared should have entered the Chamber and got taken out in the Room of the Ancient Warriors, like others have said. Katie wouldn't have wasted time in the Dark Forest and probably would have assembled the monkey pretty quickly too. I doubt they would have won even then, but they would have at least reached the artifact.

As for Smashed Printing Plate, I always thought the third guard was in the Crypt. Since Jason went down into the Ledges instead of the Crypt, it's not impossible that the third guard to be in there. It could have been like "Chandragupta," where Andrea entered the Ledges and not the Crypt. Though I can see how the King's Storeroom would work. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 09, 2013, 05:13:10 PM
As for Smashed Printing Plate, I always thought the third guard was in the Crypt. Since Jason went down into the Ledges instead of the Crypt, it's not impossible that the third guard to be in there. It could have been like "Chandragupta," where Andrea entered the Ledges and not the Crypt. Though I can see how the King's Storeroom would work. Just a thought.

That is definitely a possibility, but there were several episodes that forced the teams from the Crypt to the Ledges without the Crypt holding a guard. Some of those episodes include "Upside-Down Compass of Henry Hudson," "Marble Armrest of Xerxes," and "Mystical Spellbook of the Imperial Wizard," which if you notice are all episodes taped around "Smashed Printing Plate." That correlation should make it seem as though having a guard in the Crypt for "Smashed Printing Plate" would be a little out of place. And also, since the second door opened in the Pit, it seems more likely for the King's Storeroom to have held the guard for "Smashed Printing Plate" anyways.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 09, 2013, 08:51:16 PM
I'm going to do a trio in this post: Useless Map of the Chibcha Chieftain, Golden Spider Web of Robert the Bruce, and Discarded Seal of Ivan the Terrible.


Useless Map of the Chibcha Chieftain
Guards Encountered: Crypt, Tomb of the Headless Kings, King's Storeroom
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0


Golden Spider Web of Robert the Bruce
Guards Encountered: King's Storeroom, Ancient Warriors (armor 1), Quicksand Bog
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0


Discarded Seal of Ivan the Terrible
Guards Encountered: Chamber of the Sacred Markers, Shrine of the Silver Monkey, Ancient Warriors (armor 3)
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0


The teams in all three of these episodes encountered all three guards. There should be no question as to where they were for any of these runs.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 10, 2013, 12:13:00 AM
Up next is the "Mysterious Manuscript of Mary Shelley."

Guards Encountered: Chamber of the Sacred Markers, Shrine of the Silver Monkey
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Secret Password, Quicksand Bog, Jesters' Court, Tomb of the Headless Kings, Ledges

Notes: There was some talk about there being a guard in the Secret Password, Quicksand Bog, or Ledges. The majority of the discussion regarding this run was that the middle armor of the Ancient Warriors behaved suspiciously when Kate got inside of it.

My Thoughts: The last guard was most likely in the Ledges. Before Kirk starts the run, we can see that the Ledges were incredibly dark. I have provided an image below courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf. As I mentioned at the start of the Season 3 episodes, the darkened Ledges were only seen in a few runs spread over the whole season. It was most likely a lighting effect used to conceal a guard hiding in the top of the Ledges, as seen in "Dried Apple Half of William Tell." Given that Kate tried all of the books in the Crypt and was given access directly into the Pit, my guess is that going into the Ledges would have forced the team to encounter both a guard and a dead end.




-- Now to discuss the unusual headdress in the Ancient Warriors. When Kate got inside of the middle headdress in the Ancient Warriors, she flinched a little bit, and the whole armor spun a considerable distance. Once she got inside, the armor sprung back to a straight position and she was allowed to exit into the Shrine of the Silver Monkey. I have done my best to create a frame sequence of these events in the image below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf. All of the frames were taken from the same camera angle; the camera did not move in any of those shots. Take note where the relative position of the arm of the armor was in each frame, and you will be able to see that the headdress swiveled.




Since a headdress only swiveled when there was a temple guard behind it, it would seem as though there should have been a guard in the Ancient Warriors. To further support that statement, also consider Kate's flinching, as well as the unusually long amount of time it took for the Shrine guard to capture her. Finally, keep in mind that the middle armor was the one that activated the door to the Shrine, and it was nearly always the case that the guard was kept in the armor that activated the next door. Additionally, it was incredibly common for the Chamber of the Sacred Markers/Ancient Warriors to hold a combination of guards. All things considered, it is to my belief that the Shrine guard was actually supposed to be encountered in the Ancient Warriors.


-- It is strange to think that the Ledges guard was avoided, the Chamber guard was potentially avoidable since the King's Storeroom opened directly from the Ledges, and the only forced guard did not make his capture in the proper room. This run could have been a potential solo victory, but instead things went very off course- from the mishap with the middle armor to Larry's assembly of the Silver Monkey. This is why I find the "Mysterious Manuscript of Mary Shelley" run to be so unusual yet intriguing.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 10, 2013, 10:37:13 PM
Up next is the beloved "Dried Apple Half of William Tell."

Guards Encountered: Ledges, Tomb of the Headless Kings
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Shrine, Secret Password, Quicksand Bog, Dark Forest, Jesters' Court

Notes: Everyone felt that the team did not progress far enough into the temple to make a reasonable guess as to where the final guard was. However, one person theorized that since Brett and Lauren had two pendants, the last guard did not need to be avoidable and guessed that he was in either the Dark Forest, Quicksand Bog, or Shrine.

My Thoughts: I agree with the Notes. It is hard to guess where the final guard was, especially since the team did not get very far, nor was any part of the inner temple shown during the credits. But we do know that the guard was not in the Jesters' Court.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on February 10, 2013, 10:49:19 PM
The last guard in Dried Apple Half was probably in the Dark Forest. Since the layout was similar to Bullet Riddled Handbag, only without the Ledges.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 10, 2013, 11:09:55 PM
The last guard in Dried Apple Half was probably in the Dark Forest. Since the layout was similar to Bullet Riddled Handbag, only without the Ledges.

That is a very good point, PPF. My only question about that comparison is that there was also a guard in the Quicksand Bog in the "Bullet-Riddled Handbag" run. And to elaborate on that comparison, it was also suggested in the past that Brett and Lauren would have completed enough rooms by the Dark Forest for the Shrine to open directly. However, as we saw in "Bullet-Riddled Handbag," they were not given that luxury. So would the "Dried Apple Half" team have been granted direct access from the Dark Forest to the Shrine, or would they have had to enter the Quicksand Bog? And furthermore, would the final guard have been in the Dark Forest, Quicksand Bog, Secret Password, or Shrine?
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on February 11, 2013, 01:41:18 AM
I have a feeling they would have been given access to the Quicksand Bog/Shrine passage, but not the Forest/Shrine passage. Also in "Bullet Riddled Handbag," the first two temple guards were in the Tomb and Dark Forest, with a third guard in the Quicksand Bog. In "Dried Apple Half," we saw guards in the Ledges and Tomb, but not consecutively. With the third guard in the Dark Forest, it would have had nearly the same temple guard placement (and layout for that matter). Only in "Bullet Riddled Handbag," the third temple guard would be moved all the way back to the Quicksand Bog, instead of the Ledges. That's my take on it at least.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 11, 2013, 09:02:02 AM
I have a feeling they would have been given access to the Quicksand Bog/Shrine passage, but not the Forest/Shrine passage. Also in "Bullet Riddled Handbag," the first two temple guards were in the Tomb and Dark Forest, with a third guard in the Quicksand Bog. In "Dried Apple Half," we saw guards in the Ledges and Tomb, but not consecutively. With the third guard in the Dark Forest, it would have had nearly the same temple guard placement (and layout for that matter). Only in "Bullet Riddled Handbag," the third temple guard would be moved all the way back to the Quicksand Bog, instead of the Ledges. That's my take on it at least.

But then one could argue that having a guard in the Quicksand Bog for "Dried Apple Half" would have been nearly identical to the "Bullet Riddled Handbag" layout as well. The only difference from your suggestion would have been that the Dark Forest guard got moved to the Ledges instead of the guard that had been in the Quicksand Bog.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on February 11, 2013, 02:08:44 PM
I say the last guard in "William Tell" was in the Dark Forest or Quicksand Bog. The temple guard layout during that whole production day was really unusual. Each of the temple runs that day had temple guards dispersed all over the temple. Like the "Hans Holbein" temple run had guards in the Room of the Ancient Warriors and Room of the Secret Password. While the "Ivan the Terrible" temple run had temple guards in the Shrine and Room of the Ancient Warriors. So the guard being in the Dark Forest/Quicksand Bog wouldn't be unusual since the whole production day in general had unusual temple guard placements. And also following the "Belle Boyd" temple guard placement, it wouldn't be surprising to see a guard in one of those two rooms either.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 11, 2013, 04:26:23 PM
If you look at the guard placements for the other runs from the "William Tell" production day (and most other Season 3 runs, in general), you will notice that there was usually two or less rooms between the last two guards, and they were never more than 3 rooms apart.

Discarded Seal of Ivan the Terrible: Shrine, Ancient Warriors (1 rooms apart)
Mysterious Manuscript of Mary Shelley: Chamber of the Sacred Markers, Shrine/Ancient Warriors depending on the funky middle headdress (2-3 rooms apart)
Missing Portrait of Hans Holbein: Ancient Warriors, Secret Password (2 rooms apart)

It seems likely that the final guard for "Dried Apple Half of William Tell" was in either the Dark Forest or Quicksand Bog. The Secret Password seemed too far out of the way, and it would have been unlikely in my opinion for the guard to be in the Shrine because the gap between the final two guards would have been unusually large (unless the Dark Forest opened directly to the Shrine, which I don't think it would have). It's a shame that Brett and Lauren didn't make it far enough in the temple for us to tell which room held the guard. I bet Lauren's reaction upon encountering a guard would have been pretty good.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 11, 2013, 05:32:43 PM
And next up is "Missing Portrait of Hans Holbein."

Guards Encountered: Crypt, Ancient Warriors (armor 2), Secret Password
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

All of the guards were encountered during this run, so there should not be any question as to where they were.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 11, 2013, 11:04:20 PM
Next on the list is "Ivory Hunting Horn of Roland."


Guards Encountered: Tomb of the Headless Kings
Number of Unencountered Guards: 2
Rooms not Entered: King's Storeroom, Chamber of the Sacred Markers, Room of the Ancient Warriors, Secret Password, Quicksand Bog, Ledges

Notes: It was thought that there was a guard in the Quicksand Bog because of the piling of Styrofoam blocks. The other guard was suggested to be in the King's Storeroom or Chamber of the Sacred Markers because of the fact that the King's Storeroom opened from the Pit.

My Thoughts: I agree with the suggested placements of the guards mentioned above.

-- Both the Tomb of the Headless Kings and the King's Storeroom opened from the Pit of the Pendulum. It seems likely that one of the upper central shaft rooms held a guard because it was common for a guard to be stationed in the extra rooms of the path. I have provided an image below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf.




-- The half pendant was seen above the left-hand column of markers in the Chamber of the Sacred Markers when Yakerra was exiting the temple. I have provided an image below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf. I personally think the King's Storeroom was more likely to have held the guard than the Chamber because it was not so common for guards to be in back-to-back rooms in Season 3.




-- During the credits, the cameramen had fun and showed a bunch of different angles of the temple. They did one of the Quicksand Bog from the Shrine. I have provided an image of the camera angle, which showed a nice pile of Styrofoam blocks underneath the slide. If you compare it to the same camera angle from "Red Sash of Tokugawa Ieyasu," also provided below, you will see that the blocks were arranged similarly. We know that the "Red Sash" run held a guard in the Quicksand Bog, so it should make sense that there was a guard in the Quicksand Bog for "Ivory Hunting Horn of Roland" as well. Both images provided courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf.





Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 12, 2013, 08:49:08 AM
Next is "Royal Torque of Queen Boadicea."

Guards Encountered: Crypt, Chamber of the Sacred Markers, Shrine of the Silver Monkey
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

All of the guards were encountered during this run, so there should not be any question as to where they were.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on February 12, 2013, 01:55:51 PM
If the last guard in "Roland" was truly in the Quicksand Bog, then this team was given a win on a silver platter. I mean come on - Dark Forest, Jester's Court, and Tomb of the Headless Kings? That is pretty much like the "Robin Hood and Marian's Ladder" temple win of Season 3. Easy temple layout aside, I agree that the other guard would've been in the King's Storeroom. It would be just like the Snow Cone run if Yakerra went up into the King's Storeroom, she would probably be forced down the central shaft.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on February 12, 2013, 03:15:13 PM
Yeah, the Quicksand Bog and the King's Storeroom was probably where the other two temple guards were. And yeah, the layout was way too easy. Maybe it was fixed considering how many losses their were in the runs before this?
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 12, 2013, 09:51:54 PM
Next on the list is "Lost Hornpipe of the Pirate Captain."

Guards Encountered: Chamber of the Sacred Markers, Ancient Warriors (armor 2)
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Ledges, Jesters' Court, Dark Forest

Notes: Nearly everyone was convinced that the last guard was in the Ledges.

My Thoughts: The half pendant was in the King's Storeroom; we can see it during the credits. Since the half pendant was next to a clay pot that was not smashed, my guess is that the producers expected the second runner to come across it. In other words, I believe the last guard was in a room prior to the King's Storeroom. That would leave the Ledges.

-- The Ledges were dark before the run started, when Jarrid entered the temple, and when he exited the temple. Images of each are provided below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf.










-- The Jesters' Court never held a guard, nor did it open from the Tomb of the Headless Kings. Also, the Dark Forest did not open from the Shrine of the Silver Monkey. I have provided an image below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf.




-- Also note that Jarrid entered the Secret Password, although very briefly. Some people suggested that Jarrid may have been fast enough to get out of the Secret Password to avoid a guard in that room. But if you consider how quickly the guards came out during the "Thornwood Gavel" and "War Fan" runs, then it should make sense that there was not a guard in the Secret Password.


-- All things considered, the Ledges is the only possible room that could have held the last guard in "Lost Hornpipe of the Pirate Captain." Everything about this run points to the fact that the Ledges held the last guard.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 13, 2013, 09:58:24 PM
Next on the list is the "Enormous Feather of the Me Linh."

Guards Encountered: Tomb of the Headless Kings, Dark Forest (left tree)
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Chamber of the Sacred Markers, Secret Password, Ledges

Notes: All three rooms were discussed as potential rooms to hold the final guard.

My Thoughts: The team was never given access to the Chamber of the Sacred Markers during the run. Only the Tomb of the Headless Kings opened from the Pit, since the red cover was still over the door to the Chamber when Karisa entered the Pit. And only the King's Storeroom opened from the Ancient Warriors, as you can see when Karisa began running up to the King's Storeroom. I have provided supplemental photos of each courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf. Since the team was not given access to the Chamber until after the artifact was grabbed, there could not have been a guard in that room.


 


-- The Ledges were not as dark as they were for "Dried Apple Half of William Tell" or "Lost Hornpipe of the Pirate Captain" (or any of those particular runs mentioned at the start of the Season 3 discussion). I have provided a sequence of photos from before the prize sequence (top left), before the run started (top right), as Karisa entered the temple (lower left), and as Karisa exited the temple (lower right). Even though the lighting of the Ledges was not identical to the other runs, it is possible that the slightly dimming was meant to conceal a guard in the bottom of the room.




-- It is also possible, though less likely in my opinion, that the Secret Password held the last guard. As some people put it in the other thread, having a guard in the Secret Password would have "punished the team for trying to take the long way instead of taking shortcuts." My biggest reservation about the Secret Password holding the final guard is that the temple guard placement would then not have followed the pattern from the rest of the day (italicized rooms notate speculative guard locations):
You'll realize that each of these runs featured two guards toward the outer temple and one in the inner/deep temple. If the final guard had been in the Secret Password for "Enormous Feather," then there would have been deep guards in both the Dark Forest and Secret Password; conversely, having a guard in the Ledges would have upheld the pattern.

Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on February 13, 2013, 10:26:48 PM
I'm not sure if it was the Ledges, the room was pretty well lit to me. I always thought it could have been in the Room of the Secret Password. For the "taking the long way" reason you stated. That or punish the team for taking one wrong turn. Though if the third guard were in the Ledges, it could have been another "Sultan Suleiman" scenario, where going into the Ledges would ruin the teams chance at winning.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 13, 2013, 10:37:20 PM
I'm not sure if it was the Ledges, the room was pretty well lit to me. I always thought it could have been in the Room of the Secret Password. For the "taking the long way" reason you stated. That or punish the team for taking one wrong turn. Though if the third guard were in the Ledges, it could have been another "Sultan Suleiman" scenario, where going into the Ledges would ruin the teams chance at winning.

Not only would the Ledges guard have been avoidable, it also seemed as though the Dark Forest guard could have been avoided if David went directly to plowing through the stone wall into the Quicksand Bog. The temple spirit's arms were down, and we saw that the stone wall broke down to the Quicksand Bog. Even though Karisa did not try to find the key in the other tree, my guess is that there would not have been a key available to the team.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on February 13, 2013, 10:46:40 PM
I think the Ledges makes more sense for the last guard. The only time the producers seemed to put a guard in the Room of the Secret Password would be when they wanted to force the team into that room. And most of the time, that was from the Shrine entrance. By putting it in the Ledges, at least one guard would've been avoidable. And yeah, I am sure David could've avoided the Dark Forest tree also. It would've saved this temple run from being one of the many Orange Iguana bottom feeder runs. Or I wouldn't have mind to see it end in triple capture either instead of sitting through Karisa's suckfest.  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 13, 2013, 10:57:51 PM
The only time the producers seemed to put a guard in the Room of the Secret Password would be when they wanted to force the team into that room. And most of the time, that was from the Shrine entrance.

That is a very good observation about the Secret Password Guards, TRJ. I hadn't noticed that, but it is definitely true. The encountered Secret Password guards were seen in "Thornwood Gavel of Judge Roy Bean," "War Fan of the Forty-Seven Ronin," "Missing Portrait of Hans Holbein," "Red Sash of Tokugawa Ieyasu," and "Mummified Hand of the Egyptian King." Every single one of those five runs featured the teams running in the counterclockwise path, meaning they had to enter the Secret Password from the Shrine rather than from the Quicksand Bog.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot319 on February 13, 2013, 11:10:30 PM
The pictures aren't loading for me. :|
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on February 13, 2013, 11:12:47 PM
They work fine for me. It's probably just your browser.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 13, 2013, 11:13:12 PM
The pictures aren't loading for me. :|

Everything is working on my end, and none of the image links seem to be broken. Perhaps reloading the page would help?
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot319 on February 13, 2013, 11:14:38 PM
Reloading doesn't do squat. I'll restart my computer and see if that helps. :?
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on February 13, 2013, 11:17:15 PM
I'm not sure if it was the Ledges, the room was pretty well lit to me. I always thought it could have been in the Room of the Secret Password. For the "taking the long way" reason you stated. That or punish the team for taking one wrong turn. Though if the third guard were in the Ledges, it could have been another "Sultan Suleiman" scenario, where going into the Ledges would ruin the teams chance at winning.

Not only would the Ledges guard have been avoidable, it also seemed as though the Dark Forest guard could have been avoided if David went directly to plowing through the stone wall into the Quicksand Bog. The temple spirit's arms were down, and we saw that the stone wall broke down to the Quicksand Bog. Even though Karisa did not try to find the key in the other tree, my guess is that there would not have been a key available to the team.
If that were the case, this could have been a solo victory if David had just avoided the Dark Forest trees.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot319 on February 13, 2013, 11:23:19 PM
They uploaded now.

I agree that the last guard was in the Ledges. Having the guard in the Secret Password seems unnecessary to me. The layout was already long enough, no need to make it overkill.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on February 14, 2013, 12:31:31 AM
The only time the producers seemed to put a guard in the Room of the Secret Password would be when they wanted to force the team into that room. And most of the time, that was from the Shrine entrance.

That is a very good observation about the Secret Password Guards, TRJ. I hadn't noticed that, but it is definitely true. The encountered Secret Password guards were seen in "Thornwood Gavel of Judge Roy Bean," "War Fan of the Forty-Seven Ronin," "Missing Portrait of Hans Holbein," "Red Sash of Tokugawa Ieyasu," and "Mummified Hand of the Egyptian King." Every single one of those five runs featured the teams running in the counterclockwise path, meaning they had to enter the Secret Password from the Shrine rather than from the Quicksand Bog.

It makes me wonder if the last guard in the "Mary Shelley" run was in the Room of the Secret Password? That would've made it similar to the Egpytian King and Judge Roy Bean temple run layout where the team was forced into the Room of the Secret Password from the Shrine. And judging from the other layouts that day (Ivan the Terrible, William Tell, and Hans Holbein), I doubt that Kate and Larry would be simply allowed into the Dark Forest from the Shrine.

They uploaded now.

I agree that the last guard was in the Ledges. Having the guard in the Secret Password seems unnecessary to me. The layout was already long enough, no need to make it overkill.
It wouldn't have really been overkill because it's not like Karisa and David were forced into that room. If the room was entered, then it would've been Karisa's own stupidity.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 14, 2013, 12:43:07 AM
The only time the producers seemed to put a guard in the Room of the Secret Password would be when they wanted to force the team into that room. And most of the time, that was from the Shrine entrance.

That is a very good observation about the Secret Password Guards, TRJ. I hadn't noticed that, but it is definitely true. The encountered Secret Password guards were seen in "Thornwood Gavel of Judge Roy Bean," "War Fan of the Forty-Seven Ronin," "Missing Portrait of Hans Holbein," "Red Sash of Tokugawa Ieyasu," and "Mummified Hand of the Egyptian King." Every single one of those five runs featured the teams running in the counterclockwise path, meaning they had to enter the Secret Password from the Shrine rather than from the Quicksand Bog.

It makes me wonder if the last guard in the "Mary Shelley" run was in the Room of the Secret Password? That would've made it similar to the Egpytian King and Judge Roy Bean temple run layout where the team was forced into the Room of the Secret Password from the Shrine. And judging from the other layouts that day (Ivan the Terrible, William Tell, and Hans Holbein), I doubt that Kate and Larry would be simply allowed into the Dark Forest from the Shrine.

It would not have surprised me if Kate and Larry were to be forced into the Secret Password and Quicksand Bog before arriving at the Dark Forest. Given the lengths and difficulties of the other paths from that production day, it seems likely that they should have been forced into a large number of rooms. However, because of the strong indicators that I suggested earlier in this topic, I still believe the Ledges held the final guard in the "Mysterious Manuscript of Mary Shelley."
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 14, 2013, 04:07:22 PM
"Red Sash of Tokugawa Ieyasu" is up next.

Guards Encountered: King's Storeroom, Secret Password, Quicksand Bog
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

All of the guards were encountered in this run, so there should be no question as to where they were.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 14, 2013, 08:13:13 PM
Up next is "Broken Trident of Poseidon."

Guards Encountered: NONE
Number of Unencountered Guards: 3
Rooms not Entered: Ledges, King's Storeroom, Chamber of the Sacred Markers, Ancient Warriors, **Dark Forest

Notes: Most people thought there was an alternate path that led from the Tomb of the Headless Kings to the rest of the central shaft, allowing guards to be stationed somewhere along that route. Some people believed they saw the right tree in the Dark Forest with its limb up, which may have suggested a guard was there.

My Thoughts: This is a very peculiar and baffling run. It is clear that at least one of the guards had to have been in the upper central shaft or Room of the Ancient Warriors, since the known accessible rooms to this team were the Ledges and Dark Forest, but that would only account for a maximum of two guards. The image below will hopefully narrow our choices of guard locations, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf.




-- In the top left and top right photos, I have provided images of the Ledges from before the prize sequence and before the run began, respectively. As you can see, the room is pretty well-lit. I am not sure whether a guard would have been stationed here or not.

-- The bottom left photo shows that the only door that opened from the Pit of the Pendulum was to the Tomb of the Headless Kings. Since neither of the upper doors opened, this is not a simple case where the path split and the portion of the path with extra rooms held a guard. What is interesting to note is that there was a very unusual sound effect when the skull was placed on the correct skeleton in the Tomb of the Headless Kings. Perhaps both the Jesters' Court and Chamber opened?

-- As you can see from the bottom right photo, when Kimberly was exiting the temple, the cover went up in the Chamber of the Sacred Markers. While there was a very long time gap between when Kimberly grabbed the artifact and when they showed that door, I don't think a guard would have been stationed in the room. The only was this team would have had access to the Chamber was from the Tomb of the Headless Kings. Since the Chamber probably would have only led up to the King's Storeroom, the guard would have been located behind the cover. The only time the guard was stationed in the side door was when the cover failed to go up, or when the team was descending from the King's Storeroom.

-- Kimberly did not try either tree in the Dark Forest, but my gut instinct is telling me that one of them probably held a guard.


To summarize, I think that there was a guard in the Dark Forest, but none in the Chamber of the Sacred Markers. The Ledges seem like a likely place to hold guard, but the lighting tells a different story. The final guard had to be in the King's Storeroom or Ancient Warriors, but I am not sure how either room would have been accessed or which room seems more likely to have held the final guard (or perhaps both of those rooms held a guard, and the Ledges was clear?).
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on February 14, 2013, 08:30:33 PM
I always thought the guards were in the Room of the Ancient Warriors, King's Storeroom (ala "Bifocal Monocle), and the other guard in the Dark Forest. It's also possible the Tomb/Chamber door could have opened, making for a dead end "loop" possibility.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: GreenMonkeys#1 on February 14, 2013, 09:19:32 PM
I always thought the guards were in the Room of the Ancient Warriors, King's Storeroom (ala "Bifocal Monocle), and the other guard in the Dark Forest. It's also possible the Tomb/Chamber door could have opened, making for a dead end "loop" possibility.

Or it could possibly be almost like the Davy Crockett layout if the plan was to go up the shaft and to the Shrine via the Room of the Ancient Warriors.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on February 14, 2013, 09:44:03 PM
It's funny how Kimberly took the most direct path to the artifact and didn't encounter a single temple guard. I say that one of the temple guards was indeed in the Dark Forest because it would be similar to the "Bandit Queen" and "Egyptian Queen" runs where there was a guard in the Dark Forest in both runs. But it gets tricky from there though. What if the team chose to go up the central shaft? Would there be an alternate path to the artifact? Or would it be like "Dead Man's Hand" and "Ali Baba" where traveling up the central shaft would've been a useless detour?

None of the upper two doors from the Wall Climb opened into the Chamber/King's Storeroom. Is it possible that the team could travel up the central shaft, enter the Room of the Ancient Warriors, and then enter the Shrine from there? If so, that would make this temple run similar to the Sforza win. This is a pretty quirky temple layout though. :!:
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: GreenMonkeys#1 on February 14, 2013, 09:48:29 PM
It's funny how Kimberly took the most direct path to the artifact and didn't encounter a single temple guard. I say that one of the temple guards was indeed in the Dark Forest because it would be similar to the "Bandit Queen" and "Egyptian Queen" runs where there was a guard in the Dark Forest in both runs. But it gets tricky from there though. What if the team chose to go up the central shaft? Would there be an alternate path to the artifact? Or would it be like "Dead Man's Hand" and "Ali Baba" where traveling up the central shaft would've been a useless detour?

None of the upper two doors from the Wall Climb opened into the Chamber/King's Storeroom. Is it possible that the team could travel up the central shaft, enter the Room of the Ancient Warriors, and then enter the Shrine from there? If so, that would make this temple run similar to the Sforza win. This is a pretty quirky temple layout though. :!:

Pit of the Pendulum Mr. Fogg Up God
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on February 14, 2013, 09:54:35 PM
I do believe one of the temple spirits were in the Stage Right tree and here is picture proof:




The image on the left is from "The Snow Cone of Mt. Kilimanjaro" entered the Dark Forest. If you notice the temple guard closest to the Jester's Court, his left limb is sticking up. And when Casey approaches him, he gets captured by it. The same tree also has his limb raised in the "Poseidon" temple run. So I do think that one of the temple guards was in that room.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot319 on February 14, 2013, 10:20:08 PM
The Dark Forest definitely held one of the guards, but the other two are a mystery. I agree with PPF that this run could've been another Bifocal Monocle run, except the only door that opened from the Pit of the Pendulum was the Tomb of the Headless Kings. This would've made the run similar to other runs like Silver Saddle Horn, Dead Man's Hand, and Ali Baba. A brutal dead-end wouldn't be out of the question, but it was rare for there to be a season 3 dead-end. However, with the way the run played out, there HAD to be another route (and one that might've lead to a dead-end, AKA the "Triangle of Nowhere").

That being said, I think the other two guards were in the Room of the Ancient Warriors (direct path trick similar to Bifocal Monocle) and the King's Storeroom (just in case Kimberly was dumb enough to be like Veronica, which wouldn't have surprised me if she did this :roll: ). Although the right-side tree limb looks less down compared to the Snow Cone run, it still looks like that would've been the capture tree.

Again, the Dark Forest had to have held a temple guard. I don't think there was any chance of all three guards being in that "Triangle of Nowhere" and the Ledges were lit all the way. No way there was one in the Ledges, unless he was stationed at the very bottom like in most season 2 runs. Still, I don't think this would've happened based on what we've concluded about the Ledges in season 3.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 14, 2013, 10:23:06 PM
It's funny how Kimberly took the most direct path to the artifact and didn't encounter a single temple guard. I say that one of the temple guards was indeed in the Dark Forest because it would be similar to the "Bandit Queen" and "Egyptian Queen" runs where there was a guard in the Dark Forest in both runs. But it gets tricky from there though. What if the team chose to go up the central shaft? Would there be an alternate path to the artifact? Or would it be like "Dead Man's Hand" and "Ali Baba" where traveling up the central shaft would've been a useless detour?

None of the upper two doors from the Wall Climb opened into the Chamber/King's Storeroom. Is it possible that the team could travel up the central shaft, enter the Room of the Ancient Warriors, and then enter the Shrine from there? If so, that would make this temple run similar to the Sforza win. This is a pretty quirky temple layout though. :!:

I wholeheartedly agree. I was thinking that this team would have been given a second path up the whole central shaft and then across to the Shrine of the Silver Monkey. I don't think that series of rooms would have been a dead end. The only dead-end seen in Season 3 was in "Bifocal Monocle." Additionally, dead ends were rarely ever more than two rooms long. Those two factors make me believe the central shaft was a complete new path, rather than a series of dead end rooms.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 15, 2013, 12:20:25 AM
Please feel free to continue discussing the previous episodes. But for now, I will be moving on to "Lily-Crested Crown of Clovis I."

Guards Encountered: Chamber of the Sacred Markers, Shrine of the Silver Monkey
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Secret Password, Dark Forest, Jesters' Court, Tomb of the Headless Kings, Ledges, Ancient Warriors (armor 3)

Notes:

My Thoughts: Since the guards in the Ancient Warriors were only ever placed in inactive headdresses nearest the room from which the contestant entered, the guard would have been in the first headdress if one was in the room. Since that armor did not have a guard behind it, I don't think there was a guard in the Ancient Warriors.

-- The King's Storeroom was the only room to open from the Pit, and the Tomb of the Headless Kings did not open from the Chamber. Therefore, the Tomb of the Headless Kings and Jesters' Court were inaccessible, meaning there could not have been a guard in either of those rooms.

-- The Ledges appeared to be well-lit, so I don't think there was a guard there.

-- If I had to guess between the Dark Forest and Secret Password, I would say that the Secret Password would have been the door to open and hold the final guard. The only time both doors opened was in "War Fan of the Forty-Seven Ronin," but that team had 1 pendant while the "Clovis I" team had 2 pendants. The reason I think the Secret Password is more likely to have held the final guard is that the Secret Password only ever held a guard when the team was entering from the Shrine. Additionally, I think it would have been awkward to have the final guard in the Dark Forest, since it would have had to have blocked the stone wall in order to make a capture, when the artifact was directly on the other side of the wall. Take "Lost Logbooks of Magellan" for example, where the final guard was in the upper left room and where the artifact was directly below in the lower left room.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on February 15, 2013, 01:22:37 AM
I don't know about the Secret Password. This path was exactly like "The Pearl Necklace of Gwalior," both layout and temple guard wise. The only difference is the Gwalior team actually made it to the Quicksand Bog, despite not reaching the necklace. Also in that run, there was no temple guard in the Room of the Secret Password. It could very well have been the Dark Forest, as a dead end. Especially if the Ledges was well lit and did not feature a temple guard.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 15, 2013, 09:35:06 AM
I don't know about the Secret Password. This path was exactly like "The Pearl Necklace of Gwalior," both layout and temple guard wise. The only difference is the Gwalior team actually made it to the Quicksand Bog, despite not reaching the necklace. Also in that run, there was no temple guard in the Room of the Secret Password. It could very well have been the Dark Forest, as a dead end. Especially if the Ledges was well lit and did not feature a temple guard.

You are quite right that the "Clovis I" and "Gwalior" paths and encountered temple guards were identical. However, it would not have been the first time that two Season 3 runs had identical paths with different temple guard placements. Take "Dried Ear of Corn of Sojourner Truth" and "Much-Heralded Helmet of Sir Gawain," for example.


In the "Gwalior" run, the Ledges were well-lit. The door leading down from the Chamber of the Sacred Markers to the Tomb of the Headless Kings was clearly locked, since Dawn attempted to go down but could not. Only the Secret Password opened from the Shrine, so we know that the Dark Forest could not have held a guard. Since Ryan only tried the middle armor in the Ancient Warriors and no other room could feasibly hold a guard, the final guard had to have been in the first headdress in the Ancient Warriors. That would make sense because guards stationed in inactive headdresses were always in the one nearest the door from which the contestant entered the room. (I'll recap all of this when we get to the "Gwalior" run.)

In the "Clovis I" run, Katie tried both the first and second headdresses. There was clearly not a guard in the headdress that activated the Shrine. Since the guards in inactive headdresses only ever were stationed in the armors closest to the room from which the contestant entered, a guard in the Ancient Warriors for "Clovis I" would have been in the first headdress, which we know there was not.

Even though neither final guard was encountered for "Clovis I" or "Gwalior," we can deduce that they would not have been in the same place. The Secret Password clearly did not hold a guard in "Gwalior," nor did the Dark Forest open. Likewise, Katie in "Clovis I" tried both the inactive headdress nearest the room from which she entered, as well as the correct headdress in the Ancient Warriors without encountering a guard. For both of those reasons, we know that the final guards could not be in identical places for the two runs.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on February 15, 2013, 03:07:05 PM
I don't know, I think the last temple guard in "Gwalior" had to be in the Ledges. Ryann and Dawn had a very linear path to the artifact, and it did not stray at all. The only choice they had was to take the Ledges or Crypt at the beginning of the run. The Ledges makes the most sense since it's the only room that was not entered by either one of them. Yeah, there was partial lighting in the Ledges in their run and most of the time the Ledges were supposedly pitch black when a temple guard is there. But I think there were instances where the Ledges were partially lighted and a temple guard was located there. Watch the "Egyptian Queen" run where the only unentered room in their layout was the Ledges and they were partially lit for TJ and Randy. I think the last guard was in the Ledges in Gwalior.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 15, 2013, 10:49:36 PM
Moving right along, we are now on "Mussel Shell Armor of Apanuugpak."

Guards Encountered: Tomb of the Headless Kings, Dark Forest (left tree), Shrine
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

All of the guards in this run were met, so there should be no question as to where they were.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 15, 2013, 11:21:16 PM
We continue on with "Metal Beard of the Egyptian Queen."

Guards Encountered: Tomb of the Headless Kings, Dark Forest (right tree)
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: King's Storeroom, Chamber of the Sacred Markers, Ancient Warriors, Ledges

Notes: Everyone seemed to believe that the last guard was in the Ledges, and some people even claimed to have been able to see the guard in the room.

My Thoughts: While I could not "see" the guard during this run, the final guard had to have been in the Ledges.

-- When TJ pulled the first book in the Crypt, the door leading down to the Ledges opened. This also occurred in "Lion-Slashed Jacket of Sacajawea." Even though both teams went straight to the Pit, the camera looked down to the opened Ledges, perhaps to show that the door opened and to show that a guard was waiting there for the contestants. [If my memory serves me correctly, people were still undecided about where the last guard was in "Sacajawea." Perhaps this is a hint pointing to the Ledges as holding the last guard in that run.] Images courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf.




-- Another thing to consider is that the only door that opened from the Pit was to the Tomb of the Headless Kings. Unlike "Broken Trident of Poseidon," I do not think that there would have been an alternate path leading up the central shaft, since there was no need for there to be one in order to house the last guard.




-- Finally, even if the team began in the Ledges, this run would not have automatically ended in triple capture. The guard in the Dark Forest was in the right tree, so it was avoidable as well. Besides the guard's placement, there was no key in the room, so the team was forced to plow through the wall into the Quicksand Bog. Since entering the Ledges would not have necessarily forced this run to end in triple capture, it makes all the more sense for the Ledges to house the last guard in the "Metal Beard" run.


Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 16, 2013, 12:19:20 PM
Next up is "Mummified Hand of the Egyptian King." Even though it ended in triple capture, I still have some comments to make about this run.

Mummified Hand of the Egyptian King
Guards Encountered: Tomb of the Headless Kings, Ancient Warriors (armor 2), Secret Password
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

A few personal notes about the "Mummified Hand" run:

-- The half pendant can be seen above the left hand column of markers in the Chamber of the Sacred Markers. Because of the half pendant location, I believe that this team would have been forced to ascend the whole central shaft, rather than have a split central shaft like the one seen in "Thornwood Gavel of Judge Roy Bean." There are two ways this run could have avoided triple capture. Had Maggie begun by going into the King's Storeroom, the Tomb of the Headless Kings guard would have been avoided. Also, this run would not have ended in triple capture if Josh followed Maggie's path into the Tomb of the Headless Kings and then up the central shaft because he would have come across the half pendant.

-- It is very much worth noting the temple guard capture in the Room of the Ancient Warriors. The guard grabbed Josh before he even got a chance to pull the arms of the headdress down. But even more interesting is that when Josh first got into the middle armor, the headdress swiveled slightly, just like what happened to Kate in "Mysterious Manuscript of Mary Shelley," though the swivel was not as dramatic. Then, after the guard captured Josh, there was a slight delay before the armor spun around to reveal the guard. I believe this is strong evidence to support the idea that there should have been a guard in the middle armor in "Mary Shelley," rather than the incredibly delayed one seen in the Shrine of the Silver Monkey.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 16, 2013, 09:31:44 PM
Up now is the "Lost Taj Mahal Turban of Aurangzeb."

Guards Encountered: Chamber of the Sacred Markers, Shrine, Quicksand Bog
Number of unencountered Guards: 0

All of the guards were encountered during this run, so there should not be any question as to where they were.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 17, 2013, 11:30:43 AM
Next on the list is "Melted Head of Madame Tussaud."

Guards Encountered: Chamber of the Sacred Markers, Ancient Warriors (armor 2)
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Secret Password, Dark Forest, Jesters' Court, Ledges

Notes: Most people thought the last guard was in the Ledges. This run's path and known temple guard placements matched "Lost Hornpipe of the Pirate Captain," except for the faulty door mechanism leading from the Pit to the King's Storeroom. Since the last guard in "Lost Hornpipe" was most likely in the Ledges, they thought that the guard would have been in the Ledges for "Melted Head" as well. A few others suggested that the Secret Password could hold a guard, since Jennifer ran into that room as time ran out.

A very useful piece of information for this run is that the half pendant was most likely located in front of the center pot in the King's Storeroom. As Nicholas tries the key in the final pedestal, we can see something left on the middle pedestal, and it does not look like a shard of a broken pot. Even though that meant that the half pendant would have been situated next to a pot that did not either hold the key or cover the proper keyhole, it would not have been the first time that happened. Coincidentally enough, it also occurred in "Lost Hornpipe of the Pirate Captain."

My Thoughts: Even though there are so many similarities between "Melted Head" and "Lost Hornpipe," I think the last guard in "Melted Head" may have been in the Secret Password. Jennifer entered the Secret Password from the Shrine, which was also the case for every other contestant who encountered a guard in the Secret Password.

-- As time ran out, Jennifer finished assembling the Silver Monkey and ran into the Secret Password. We can see that the Dark Forest did not open as well, so that means that the Dark Forest can be eliminated from consideration. Likewise, the team never was given access to the Jesters' Court, nor did it ever house a guard, so that room can be eliminated too.

-- The guard in the Chamber of the Sacred Markers was potentially avoidable if Nicholas had begun by going straight into the King's Storeroom from the Pit. Therefore, the last guard did not have to be avoidable.

-- The reason I think the Secret Password held the final guard instead of the Ledges is in the camerawork at the end of the run. When time ran out, the contestant usually stopped whatever objective they were completing and the camera stayed on them for a moment before cutting back to Kirk, who would then close the episode. However in "Melted Head," when time ran out, Jennifer continued to assemble the Silver Monkey. The sound effect for the Silver Monkey played and then she ran into the Secret Password as if time had not yet run out. And instead of following her, the cameraman stayed in the Shrine and then immediately and abruptly cut back to Kirk. When they cut back to him, it seemed as though Kirk had already been talking, but whatever he said prior to the cut was removed. His final commentary about the run was, "[Jennifer] made it all the way to the Secret Password. [Nicholas'] heart is beating like a rabbit." Considering Kirk said the run ended in the Secret Password, my belief is that Jennifer was actually caught by a guard in the Secret Password, but instead of including it for whatever reason (perhaps she attacked the guard with her fury? :P ), the editors decided to edit the run to have time "expire" right before she got into that room. They also would have then cut out Kirk's commentary about how she got caught, which would have been easy to do in editing.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on February 17, 2013, 03:17:46 PM
I still think the third guard was in the Ledges, ala Pirate Captain. But good point on the Room of the Secret Password potentially holding the final guard. Also, I never thought of the editing when time ran out before. I know that even after time ran out, Jennifer still entered the Room of the Secret Password and kept on going. Maybe she did run into a temple guard with like 5-10 seconds left on the clock, but figured since time as up anyways, they'd just count it as a regular loss. And edit it as such. Though the timer still ticked away at a normal pace, edit or not.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 17, 2013, 08:08:23 PM
I still think the third guard was in the Ledges, ala Pirate Captain. But good point on the Room of the Secret Password potentially holding the final guard. Also, I never thought of the editing when time ran out before. I know that even after time ran out, Jennifer still entered the Room of the Secret Password and kept on going. Maybe she did run into a temple guard with like 5-10 seconds left on the clock, but figured since time as up anyways, they'd just count it as a regular loss. And edit it as such. Though the timer still ticked away at a normal pace, edit or not.

I didn't check to see if the timer in the "Melted Head" run stayed in real time, but it's good to know that it was at a normal pace. Even with that information, it still seems odd to me how the ending of the run and editing of the ending played out.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on February 17, 2013, 08:17:08 PM
I say the last guard in the "Madame Tussaud" run was indeed in the Ledges. It would've made the temple guard layout very similar to the Pirate Captain one. Except in Madame Tussaud, the Orange Iguanas actually had a chance to go up into the King's Storeroom. And since the top of the central shaft opened for the Orange Iguanas, it wouldn't be too hard to believe if the Secret Password opened either. Since if they started at the top of the central shaft, then their path would've been much shorter. But I still think the last guard was in the Ledges.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on February 17, 2013, 09:08:35 PM
I still think the third guard was in the Ledges, ala Pirate Captain. But good point on the Room of the Secret Password potentially holding the final guard. Also, I never thought of the editing when time ran out before. I know that even after time ran out, Jennifer still entered the Room of the Secret Password and kept on going. Maybe she did run into a temple guard with like 5-10 seconds left on the clock, but figured since time as up anyways, they'd just count it as a regular loss. And edit it as such. Though the timer still ticked away at a normal pace, edit or not.

I didn't check to see if the timer in the "Melted Head" run stayed in real time, but it's good to know that it was at a normal pace. Even with that information, it still seems odd to me how the ending of the run and editing of the ending played out.
Well, I don't have any real proof that the timer kept going normally. But I'm pretty sure it did, from what I remember about the run. But even then, the third guard still could've been in the Ledges. Like it was (possibly) in the Pirate Captain run.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 17, 2013, 11:17:21 PM
We will now turn our attention to "Pearl Necklace of Gwalior."

Guards Encountered: Chamber of the Sacred Markers, Shrine of the Silver Monkey
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Ledges, Tomb of the Headless Kings, Jesters' Court, Dark Forest, ** Ancient Warriors

Notes: Everyone agreed that the final guard was in the Ledges because it was the only unentered room that the team had access to during the run.

My Thoughts: While the Ledges were an unentered room, the team did not try all of the headdresses in the Ancient Warriors, so there could have been a guard behind one of them.

-- The only door to open from the Pit was the King's Storeroom, and we know that the Tomb of the Headless Kings did not open from the Chamber, nor did the Dark Forest from the Shrine. For that reason, we can eliminate all of the bottom floor rooms from consideration. That only leaves the Ledges and Ancient Warriors.

-- The Ledges were well-lit during the whole temple run segment. While there are other episodes with the same lighting that probably featured a guard in the Ledges, I think there is a stronger argument as to why the Ancient Warriors makes a better place to house the final guard for this run.

-- Ryan only tried the middle armor in the Ancient Warriors. He never got inside either the first or third armors. In the episodes where a guard was placed in an inactive headdress, they were always stationed in the one nearest the door from which the contestant entered. In the case of "Gwalior," that would be the first headdress.

-- If you look at the guard placements for the rest of the "Gwalior" production day, you will find that the guards were generally clustered near each other within the inner temple:
Since the guards during the rest of this production day were focused more within the inner temple than the entrance rooms, it would make sense for the final guard in "Gwalior" to be in the Ancient Warriors rather than the Ledges. Not only would the Ancient Warriors have put all of the guards in the inner temple, it would have also created a cluster of guards one after the other. Even though back to back to back guards were rare, the Ancient Warriors guard would have been avoidable. In addition, the team had 2 pendants, so encountering all three guards could not have created a triple capture situation. It is worth mentioning the teams in the other episodes in which a guard was placed in an inactive headdress in the Ancient Warriors had 1.5 pendants (Chandragupta) and 2 pendants (Ivan the Terrible).
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on February 18, 2013, 01:25:41 AM
Here is a few notes about that production day also since we are about to talk to them.

- All of the temple runs that day did not allow a chance at a solo victory.

- All the paths during that production day were linear. Besides the "Belle Boyd" run, the other three teams were only given one choice from the Pit of the Pendulum.

- At least 2/4 episodes had three guards that were unavoidable (Belle Boyd and Sojourner Truth).

- The temple guards also seemed to be clustered close to each other as PP4L mentions.

- On an unrelated note, both Pytheas and Belle Boyd finished the temple games with a 2-1.5 score.  :o
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 18, 2013, 09:59:13 AM
Next up is "Bullet-Riddled Handbag of Belle Boyd."

Guards Encountered: Tomb of the Headless Kings, Dark Forest (right tree), Quicksand Bog
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

All of the guards were encountered during the run.


I'd like to point out that the Dark Forest guard was avoidable. The temple spirit that captured Leah was in the right tree, which was not blocking the stone wall. When Matthew tried to find the key, he looked in both trees but did not find it in either tree. For that reason, the Dark Forest guard was avoidable, but the Quicksand Bog was forced. Image courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf.




And although this is not dealing with temple guard placement, I would like to say that I think this was one of the greatest teams to enter the temple. They flew through the temple, as difficult of a layout as it was. The only "mistakes" that occurred during this run were that Leah chose to go into the King's Storeroom when the Chamber of the Sacred Markers opened directly from the Pit, and that Matthew failed to try the door from the Quicksand Bog to the Shrine. An image is provided below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf. Even with those choices, this team still finished two rooms away from the Ancient Warriors. I'm not sure if bypassing the King's Storeroom would have given the team enough time to complete the Silver Monkey, but regardless, I still really think this was one of the strongest and fastest teams to enter the temple. Leah completed 7 rooms in 2:00, and Matthew followed up the whole path in 30 seconds. That's very impressive in my opinion.


Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on February 18, 2013, 03:33:09 PM
- On an unrelated note, both Pytheas and Belle Boyd finished the temple games with a 2-1.5 score.  :o
And Gwalior.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 18, 2013, 04:02:11 PM
Up now is "Lost Whale Bone of Pytheas."

Guards Encountered: Tomb of the Headless Kings, Shrine of the Silver Monkey
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Ledges, Secret Password, King's Storeroom, **Dark Forest, **Ancient Warriors

Notes: Everybody seemed to believe the last guard had to be in the Ledges for this run.

My Thoughts: The temple guard placements from the rest of the "Pytheas" day suggest to me that the final guard was somewhere within the inner temple, rather than in an entrance room.

-- The Secret Password only ever held a guard when the team entered from the Shrine. Since Brittany and Damien would have entered the Secret Password via the Quicksand Bog, I don't think there would have been a guard there.

-- This run's path mimicked those of "Comet-Embroidered Battle Flag" and "Mussel Shell Armor." For that reason, I believe the Ancient Warriors would have led straight into the Chamber of the Sacred Markers, rather than up to the King's Storeroom. For that reason, I am eliminating the King's Storeroom from consideration.

-- There could have been a guard behind the first armor in the Ancient Warriors. Damien never got a chance to try that final headdress. Having a guard in the correct headdress during a Chamber of the Sacred Markers run was seen in the "Comet-Embroidered Battle Flag" run, so it would not be out of the question to have the same thing happen in "Pytheas."

-- Brittany never tried either tree in the Dark Forest. If there really was a temple spirit in one of the trees, then the path and temple guard placement would have exactly mirrored those of "Mussel Shell Armor." In addition, there were guards in the Dark Forest in both the run immediately prior and the run directly after the "Pytheas" run.

-- The Ledges were pretty well-lit. The only choice this team had in their path was in which entrance room to take, and it was common in Center of the Rooms runs for the avoidable guard to be in the "wrong" entrance room. Still, I don't think the final guard was in the Ledges because of the temple guard pattern from the rest of the day, as well as the strong correlations of path and guard placement with the "Comet-Embroidered Battle Flag" and "Mussel Shell Armor" runs.


In summary, I think that the first armor in the Ancient Warriors and the Dark Forest are the two strongest candidates to hold the final guard. Because of the temple guard placements from the surrounding episodes and the strong correlations with the other clockwise Chamber of the Sacred Markers runs, I would say it is most likely that the Dark Forest held the final guard.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 19, 2013, 12:11:42 AM
We continue along with "Dried Ear of Corn of Sojourner Truth."

Guards Encountered: Chamber of the Sacred Markers, Ancient Warriors (armor 2), Dark Forest (left tree)
Number of Unencountered Guards: 0

All of the guards were encountered during this run, so there should be no question as to where they were. It is interesting to note that all of the guards in this run were forced, since the guard in the Ancient Warriors was in the correct headdress and the tree that held the key also held the guard.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on February 20, 2013, 02:54:36 PM
If the last temple guard in the Pytheas run was in the Dark Forest tree, would it be in the left or right side tree? Because in the "Apanuugpak" temple run, Amanda encountered her temple spirit in the tree close to the breakable wall. But the temple spirit didn't have his limb blocking the wall in that run. So could the temple spirit be in the same tree in Pytheas? I never really considered the Dark Forest as a possibility, but it makes sense now since neither Damian or Brittany tried either tree.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 20, 2013, 03:36:59 PM
If the last temple guard in the Pytheas run was in the Dark Forest tree, would it be in the left or right side tree? Because in the "Apanuugpak" temple run, Amanda encountered her temple spirit in the tree close to the breakable wall. But the temple spirit didn't have his limb blocking the wall in that run. So could the temple spirit be in the same tree in Pytheas? I never really considered the Dark Forest as a possibility, but it makes sense now since neither Damian or Brittany tried either tree.

There is better evidence to support the idea that the guard was in the right tree for the "Pytheas" run. Below are some things I considered:

1. The guard in "Apanuugpak" was in the left tree. "Pytheas" and "Apanuugpak" had identical paths and identical temple guard locations for the other two guards. It is possible that the guard placement in the Dark Forest was also identical.

2. The episode directly after "Pytheas" was "Sojourner Truth." That run also featured a guard in the left tree. However, that team was moving counterclockwise, from the Dark Forest to the Jesters' Court. In order to progress, the team was forced to find the key in the tree, and it was in the left tree, which also held the guard. Therefore, that guard was forced.

3. The episode directly before "Pytheas" was "Belle Boyd." That run featured a guard in the right tree. Like "Pytheas," this was a clockwise run; the team had the chance to avoid the Dark Forest trees altogether and go directly into the Quicksand Bog. Unlike Brittany from "Pytheas," Leah tried to find the key in the tree, and ended up getting captured by an avoidable guard in the right tree. Later, when Matthew entered the room, he was unable to find a key in either tree, and was forced into the Quicksand Bog. Therefore, the Dark Forest guard was completely avoidable in "Belle Boyd." It is likely that a similar scenario could have played out in the "Pytheas" run.

4. As Brittany entered the Dark Forest during the "Pytheas" run, the camera momentarily stalled on the right tree. Even as Brittany went to plow through the stone wall, the camera delayed on the right tree before following Brittany into the Quicksand Bog. That camerawork suggests there was something important about that right tree. The only thing that comes to mind that may have been significant is a guard being there.

I believe points 3 and 4 are stronger than points 1 and 2. For that reason, I think it is more likely that the last guard in "Pytheas" was in the right tree in the Dark Forest.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 22, 2013, 08:50:18 AM
We have finally arrived at the last production day of Season 3! First up is "Jeweled Scabbard of Sforza."

Guards Encountered: Crypt, Chamber of the Sacred Markers
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Shrine, Secret Password, Quicksand Bog, Dark Forest, Jesters' Court, Ledges

Notes: Everyone thought that the final production day featured very gimmicky paths and temple guard placements. They placed the last guard in the Ledges.

My Thoughts: The Jesters' Court did not open from the Tomb of the Headless Kings, so that entire side of the temple was inaccessible during this run. The only room Lacey and Asher were given access to but did not enter was the Ledges, so the final guard had to be there.

-- The Ledges were also darkened, similarly to how they were in "Dried Apple Half of William Tell," et al. That further strengthens the idea that the Ledges held the final guard.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 22, 2013, 05:49:08 PM
Next up is "Good-Luck Watch of Empress Eugenie."

Guards Encountered: King's Storeroom, Shrine
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: Chamber of the Sacred Markers, Secret Password, Quicksand Bog, Ledges, **Dark Forest, **Ancient Warriors

Notes: Everyone seemed to think that the Ledges held the final guard.

My Thoughts: I agree that the Ledges should have held the final guard. The room was darkened in the same manner as in "Dried Apple Half," et al. An image is provided below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf.




-- Only the King's Storeroom opened from the Pit, and only the Dark Forest opened from the Shrine. Therefore, the Chamber, Secret Password, and Quicksand Bog could not have held guards. Images are provided below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf.


 


-- The key was in the right tree in the Dark Forest, so I don't see a reason why a guard would have been placed in the other Dark Forest tree. Likewise, I don't think one of the alternate headdresses would have held a guard in the Ancient Warriors. Even though Janeen only tried the middle armor and one of the other armors could have potentially held the final guard, I don't believe it would have been likely to place guards in back-to-back-to-back rooms; if I remember correctly, that temple guard combination was not seen at all in Season 3. It seems more likely that the Ledges held the final guard due to the lighting in that room.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 22, 2013, 11:04:35 PM
Can you believe we have made it to the penultimate episode? It is time to look at "Ruby Earring of Benzibab."

Guards Encountered: Crypt, Tomb of the Headless Kings
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: King's Storeroom, Chamber of the Sacred Markers, Ancient Warriors, Shrine, Ledges, **Dark Forest

Notes: Past users noted that the King's Storeroom opened from the Pit, in addition to the Tomb of the Headless Kings. They suggested that the King's Storeroom was a more probable location than the Chamber of the Sacred Markers to hold the final guard.

My Thoughts: Unlike the two episodes directly prior to "Benzibab," the Ledges were well-lit, which suggests that room was clear.

-- Based on the King's Storeroom opening from the Pit, it would be a strong guess to believe there was a guard in one of the upper central shaft rooms. Considering it was more common in Season 3 for guards to be in the Tomb/King's Storeroom combination more often than the Tomb/Chamber, I think the most logical guess would be to place the guard in the King's Storeroom.

-- Kevin bypassed the Dark Forest trees. There could have been a guard in one of the trees. Similarly, there may have been a key to lead him up to the Shrine and then over to the Secret Password. However, I think both of these options are unlikely and improbable. Additionally, the path from the King's Storeroom may have led down to the Ancient Warriors and then back to the Chamber before going down to the Tomb of the Headless Kings, just like the "Sultan Suleiman" path. Since that path only occurred once in the show, I find it hard to believe that the Ancient Warriors was accessible during this run, so a guard was more than likely not stationed there. One may also consider that some episodes, such as "Bullet-Riddled Handbag of Belle Boyd," featured two doors open in the Pit without a guard being stationed in the excessive detour rooms. Still, that situation occurred rarely. Despite all of these other possible scenarios, I still believe that the guard was in the upper central shaft, more likely the King's Storeroom.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 22, 2013, 11:41:52 PM
It seems that we made it to the final episode so quickly! We are now on "Jewel-Encrusted Egg of Catherine the Great."

Guards Encountered: Crypt, Tomb of the Headless Kings
Number of Unencountered Guards: 1
Rooms not Entered: King's Storeroom, Chamber of the Sacred Markers, Secret Password, Quicksand Bog, Ledges

Notes: Past users noted the fact that the Tomb of the Headless Kings was the only door that opened from the Pit. They believed the final guard was in the Secret Password.

My Thoughts: I agree that the final guard had to have been in the Secret Password. None of the other unentered rooms had the ability to hold the last guard.

-- As was mentioned in the Notes, only the Tomb of the Headless Kings opened from the Pit. Neither the King's Storeroom nor the Chamber were accessible, so neither could have held the guard. An image is provided below, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf.




-- The Ledges were well-lit before the prize sequence, before the run started, and during the run. In addition, I don't think the producers would have stockpiled the guards in the two entrance rooms and Tomb of the Headless Kings, especially when the team had two pendants. Although the last production day was "gimmicky" in terms of both layout and temple guard placement, I don't think the Ledges are a feasible option to hold the last guard.

-- The Quicksand Bog was shown during the final credits. It should be clear from the image provide, courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf, that the Styrofoam blocks were not piled up in a way similar to that when a guard was present in the room.




-- By process of elimination, only the Room of the Secret Password remains as a viable option to hold the final guard for the "Jewel-Encrusted Egg" run.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 22, 2013, 11:50:08 PM
Even though we made it through all 120 episodes, we have not yet identified or come to a full agreement on where all of the guards were in every episode. That being said, I think we have made some really significant progress!

Please feel free to quote unfinished episodes and continue to discuss them!
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on February 24, 2013, 02:00:17 PM
I have created a list compiling our work here from this thread, and I placed it in the OP. By using that list for reference, we can easily see which episodes are unfinished and which ones have been completed. As we continue to discuss the temple guard locations further, we can adjust that list.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Red Jaguars Fan on March 25, 2014, 04:38:34 PM
Omg, where was I when this was happening? :shock:
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on March 25, 2014, 06:46:10 PM
Maybe you weren't interested in the forums at the time? :P

While this topic is bumped up, there is one episode I do want to talk about. For Very Tall Turban's temple guard locations, everyone seemed to think that one of the unencountered guards was in the Dark Forest. I disagree with this. I think the other guard was in Medusa's Lair. If you remember the Iron Mask run (yes I said it, if you remember it), Danielle ran into a guard in Medusa's Lair, and then again in the Swamp. And Tall Turban's layout was pretty much the same. Had Danielle avoided Medusa's Lair guard, she would've recorded a solo victory. And Shane as we know, recorded a solo victory himself. I think a Medusa's Lair guard was serve as a "dead end trap," and not a "secret guard trap" like if it were in the Dark Forest. Plus, Leopard Skin Cloak also had an identical layout, and Chandra also avoided the Dark Forest entirely. Yet everyone ruled out the Dark Forest in that run. I know I'm alone in thinking this, but I'm not the least bit convinced one of the guards in Tall Turban was in the Dark Forest.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: JCW555 on March 25, 2014, 07:12:57 PM
I think the other Temple Guard in The Very Tall Turban of Ahmed Baba is in the Crypt. Along with Medusa's Lair, that was the only other un-entered room after grabbing the artifact. Watching his run in the Dark Forest, Shane wasn't fast enough to dodge a Temple Spirit in the Dark Forest IMO. For the Mask of the Man in the Iron Mask, I think the Temple Guard was in the Dark Forest, due to the fact that Justin went low in plowing through the wall into the Mine Shaft from the Dark Forest.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on March 25, 2014, 08:59:48 PM
Yeah, I know the other guard in Tall Turban was in the Crypt, but I just think the guard I was talking about was in Medusa's Lair. Same with Iron Mask, I just don't think a temple guard would've been put in the Dark Forest in either run. I don't know, this is just my guess.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on March 25, 2014, 09:43:58 PM
If you watch the Ahmed Baba run though, you can tell Medusa's Lair was locked. Shane even tries climbing up the ladder to that room, but the door is not open. So the temple guard couldn't be there unless Shane pulled a "Henry Morgan" and entered Medusa's Lair from the top floor. In the Iron Mask run, it was obvious that Medusa's Lair was open because you could see the room color and lights from the Laser Light Room. In Ahmed Baba, you don't see the room above. That must mean that the last temple guard in Ahmed Baba was in the Dark Forest, most likely in the stage right tree. I don't think Shane ever tried the Dark Forest trees in the Ahmed Baba run. So the other two guards were in the Crypt and Dark Forest for that run. Another reason why Ahmed Baba was so generous with the avoidable guards.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on March 25, 2014, 09:52:53 PM
I'm still not very convinced, but I guess I'll take your word for it. And what about Leopard Skin Cloak? Didn't we agree that the other temple guard was in the Ledges? That would probably make sense, though a guard in the Dark Forest there makes sense too.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on March 25, 2014, 10:00:59 PM
Did Chandra ever try the Dark Forest teams in Annie Oakley? I don't quite remember, but I thought that the last guard was in the Ledges. Chandra and Nick encountered a temple guard one room away in their run. If they entered the Ledges, then Chandra would've been taken out quickly. But I think the Dark Forest could be possible too. Didn't the temple spirits usually raise their limbs if there was a guard there? Because it is obvious in runs like Butch Cassidy, Montezuma, and Snow Cone. I need to go back and watch Annie Oakley again.

And speaking temple guard layouts, which run do you think had the most generous temple guard layout? I have to say Poseidon because Kimberly took the most direct path to the Trident and didn't even encounter a single guard. But in runs like Metal Beard and Bandit Queen (also with identical paths), both teams encounter two guards on the bottom floor. And those two teams won.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on March 25, 2014, 10:04:46 PM
No, Chandra did not attempt the trees in Annie Oakley. So the third guard just might've been in there.

And I agree about Poseidon having the most generous temple guard placement. It's funny how Kimberly doesn't run into any temple guards, and still loses. Yet the teams in Metal Beard and Secret Map have an identical path, and two temple guards along the way, but they end up winning.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Red Jaguars Fan on March 26, 2014, 03:34:34 AM
I just read up on "The Mysterious Manuscript" possible locations. I don't think just because it swivels means that the guard was supposed to be there.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on March 26, 2014, 11:30:19 AM
I agree, I am not entirely convinced that the last guard in Mary Shelley was in the Room of the Ancient Warriors. I think that the headdress was just out of alignment. The last guard in that run had to be in either the Ledges, Secret Password, or Quicksand Bog. I wouldn't be surprised if Kate and Larry were forced into the Room of the Secret Password either. Especially considering how tough all of the paths were that day. :o I am going to say that the last guard was in one of those two rooms. The Chamber guard was avoidable in that run, and I don't think that the producers would allow a solo run on that day. So I am going to guess Larry would've bene forced into the Secret Password and meet a guard there.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: JCW555 on March 26, 2014, 12:44:55 PM
^ I agree, TRJ. The Warrior (no not the wrestler :P) could've been out of alignment, due to the nature of the objective. I haven't watched The Mysterious Manuscript of Mary Shelley in awhile, so I'll have to watch the run again, but I'm probably certain that the guard was in The Room of the Secret Password.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on March 26, 2014, 03:35:35 PM
With the impossible layouts the Manuscript day had, I doubt they would've recorded a solo victory. But weren't the Ledges pitch black in that run? Which pretty much indicates a guard is in there. There was certainly a guard in there in the Dried Apple Half run, filmed after Manuscript.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on March 26, 2014, 03:43:30 PM
I agree, I am not entirely convinced that the last guard in Mary Shelley was in the Room of the Ancient Warriors. I think that the headdress was just out of alignment. The last guard in that run had to be in either the Ledges, Secret Password, or Quicksand Bog. I wouldn't be surprised if Kate and Larry were forced into the Room of the Secret Password either. Especially considering how tough all of the paths were that day. :o I am going to say that the last guard was in one of those two rooms. The Chamber guard was avoidable in that run, and I don't think that the producers would allow a solo run on that day. So I am going to guess Larry would've bene forced into the Secret Password and meet a guard there.

If you rewatch the run, you'll see that when Kate first enters the Ancient Warriors, the middle headdress is aligned appropriately. It is not until she tries to get inside that is swings. The only time a headdress is "unlocked" to swivel is when there is a guard placed there. Can you think of any other instance where a headdress was unaligned or rotated/swiveled without there being a guard behind it? The only other time I can recall a headdress  "prematurely swiveling" was in the Mummified Hand of the Egyptian King run. When Josh first got into the middle armor, it rotated slightly and the temple guard grabbed him before it even had a chance to realign. My belief is that the temple guard grabbed him early in order to avoid the same event that occurred in the Mysterious Manuscript of Mary Shelley, with the guard coming out late in the Shrine.


With the impossible layouts the Manuscript day had, I doubt they would've recorded a solo victory. But weren't the Ledges pitch black in that run? Which pretty much indicates a guard is in there. There was certainly a guard in there in the Dried Apple Half run, filmed after Manuscript.

Yes, the Ledges were unlit in the Mysterious Manuscript run, indicating that there was most likely a temple guard stationed there. See page 15 of this thread to see my thoughts about that.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on March 26, 2014, 04:08:17 PM
I agree, I am not entirely convinced that the last guard in Mary Shelley was in the Room of the Ancient Warriors. I think that the headdress was just out of alignment. The last guard in that run had to be in either the Ledges, Secret Password, or Quicksand Bog. I wouldn't be surprised if Kate and Larry were forced into the Room of the Secret Password either. Especially considering how tough all of the paths were that day. :o I am going to say that the last guard was in one of those two rooms. The Chamber guard was avoidable in that run, and I don't think that the producers would allow a solo run on that day. So I am going to guess Larry would've bene forced into the Secret Password and meet a guard there.

If you rewatch the run, you'll see that when Kate first enters the Ancient Warriors, the middle headdress is aligned appropriately. It is not until she tries to get inside that is swings. The only time a headdress is "unlocked" to swivel is when there is a guard placed there. Can you think of any other instance where a headdress was unaligned or rotated/swiveled without there being a guard behind it? The only other time I can recall a headdress  "prematurely swiveling" was in the Mummified Hand of the Egyptian King run. When Josh first got into the middle armor, it rotated slightly and the temple guard grabbed him before it even had a chance to realign. My belief is that the temple guard grabbed him early in order to avoid the same event that occurred in the Mysterious Manuscript of Mary Shelley, with the guard coming out late in the Shrine.


Wasn't the same headdress out of alignment on the last production day of the show? I remember someone posted pics of the Sforza and Catherine the Great episode where you can see the middle headdress out of alignment before the temple run. I am not arguing about the theory that the temple guard was delayed, but I always felt that the headdress was not "locked" into place in the Mysterious Manuscript run. Its a possibility that there should've been a guard there, but I am just not convinced. I mean at the end of the Ivan the Terrible run, you can see one of the headdresses completely turned around.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on March 26, 2014, 05:18:40 PM
I agree, I am not entirely convinced that the last guard in Mary Shelley was in the Room of the Ancient Warriors. I think that the headdress was just out of alignment. The last guard in that run had to be in either the Ledges, Secret Password, or Quicksand Bog. I wouldn't be surprised if Kate and Larry were forced into the Room of the Secret Password either. Especially considering how tough all of the paths were that day. :o I am going to say that the last guard was in one of those two rooms. The Chamber guard was avoidable in that run, and I don't think that the producers would allow a solo run on that day. So I am going to guess Larry would've bene forced into the Secret Password and meet a guard there.

If you rewatch the run, you'll see that when Kate first enters the Ancient Warriors, the middle headdress is aligned appropriately. It is not until she tries to get inside that is swings. The only time a headdress is "unlocked" to swivel is when there is a guard placed there. Can you think of any other instance where a headdress was unaligned or rotated/swiveled without there being a guard behind it? The only other time I can recall a headdress  "prematurely swiveling" was in the Mummified Hand of the Egyptian King run. When Josh first got into the middle armor, it rotated slightly and the temple guard grabbed him before it even had a chance to realign. My belief is that the temple guard grabbed him early in order to avoid the same event that occurred in the Mysterious Manuscript of Mary Shelley, with the guard coming out late in the Shrine.


Wasn't the same headdress out of alignment on the last production day of the show? I remember someone posted pics of the Sforza and Catherine the Great episode where you can see the middle headdress out of alignment before the temple run. I am not arguing about the theory that the temple guard was delayed, but I always felt that the headdress was not "locked" into place in the Mysterious Manuscript run. Its a possibility that there should've been a guard there, but I am just not convinced. I mean at the end of the Ivan the Terrible run, you can see one of the headdresses completely turned around.

Here are images from Sforza and Catherine the Great, one from the revealing of the artifact location and one from the temple run.


 



 


While you are correct in that the headdress was turned during the SoK, the headdresses were straightened out for the temple runs. Remember that the taping of the "artifact location reveal" occurred at a different time than the temple runs. And as far as Discarded Seal goes, the first headdress turning around happened during the credits, not during the temple run.

What I am trying to say with all of this is that all of the headdresses were capable of swiveling around, but they only did so during the temple runs when there was a guard behind one of them. So then how could the armors be "programmed" to turn around sometimes but not at others? With set design, the armors could be locked into place (when there was no guard) or unlatched to swivel (when there was a guard that needed to be turned around). The only instance where this was not the case is in Mysterious Manuscript of Mary Shelley. That seems out of place. And I find it highly unlikely that the set and crew unlatched the locking mechanism/forgot to lock the mechanism "by mistake" during that run.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on March 07, 2015, 11:35:54 AM
I've done a few simple calculations regarding the frequency of temple guard placements in each room, and thought I would share them here.

The values presented below are only for guards that were physically encountered en route to the artifact, not ones that were seen upon exiting the temple, nor ones whose locations can be deduced but were not actually encountered. The first percent frequency listed is based on the number of times the room was entered, and the second percent frequency listed was calculated out of all 40 episodes from the season. These values are also based on cumulative frequencies per room space (i.e. it doesn't matter which variation of the room, just whether there was a guard or not). So, for example, in Season 2, the Swamp/Jesters' Court space could only have a guard when it was the Swamp variation, but the presented value is based off of the number of times that space was entered and the total number of guards encountered in that space as a whole for the season, even though all of the guards were encountered when it was the Swamp.

SEASON 1
RoomGongsPitObservatoryHeartTreasureShrinePirate's CoveDungeonTombSwampThroneCave of Sighs
Guards Encountered5061711611571411
Times Room Entered224020282824141717183032
Frequency of Encounter
(Times Room Entered)
23%0%30%61%39%25%7%6%29%39%47%34%
Frequency of Encounter
(Over Season)
13%0%15%43%28%15%3%3%13%18%35%28%

SEASON 2
RoomCryptPitObservatoryMedusaStoreroomShrineViper's NestMineshaftDark ForestSwampThroneLedges
Guards Encountered905141250110*7188
Times Room Entered254018192428111624272926
Frequency of Encounter
(Times Room Entered)
36%0%28%74%50%18%0%6%42%26%62%31%
Frequency of Encounter
(Over Season)
23%0%13%35%30%13%0%3%25%18%45%20%
*The guard in the Dark Forest was in the left tree 7 times and the right tree 3 times.

SEASON 3
RoomCryptPitStoreroomChamberWarriorsShrinePasswordQuicksandDark ForestJestersTombLedges
Guards Encountered8081214**9567***0171
Times Room Entered38402221282814182218268
Frequency of Encounter
(Times Room Entered)
21%0%36%57%50%32%36%33%32%0%65%13%
Frequency of Encounter
(Over Season)
20%0%20%30%35%23%13%15%18%0%43%3%
**The guard in the Ancient Warriors was in the rightmost armor 5 times, middle armor 7 times, and leftmost armor 2 times.
***The guard in the Dark Forest was in the left tree 4 times and the right tree 3 times.
Title: Re: Temple Guard Locations
Post by: The Red Jaguars on March 08, 2015, 12:52:02 PM
Wow, I am shocked how many temple guards Medusa's Lair/Room of the Mandarin Hand space held in Season 2. :shock:  I always felt like the Ledges and Dark Forest had the most during this season. The only five episodes that never featured a guard here was Silk Sash, Butch Cassidy, Cosa Rara, Grandy Nanny, and Lucky Medallion. (Just some random trivia :P)

Also, I am surprised the Ancient Warriors had a lot of guards too. I guess I never really paid attention to how many runs had a guard in them. Which makes sense they use that room a lot due to the unique guard captures. But not surprised to see the Tomb of the Headless Kings have a lot of guards. It felt like almost every run had a guard there. I think it is harder to picture a run that does NOT have a guard there. :P

It seems Season 1 had the most balance when it comes to temple guard encounters in different rooms. Aside from the overwhelming guards in the Heart Room space. I am glad that Season 3 used the corner rooms more for temple guards. Seriously, those rooms should've featured more guards in the early seasons. They were cool in runs like Henry Morgan. ;)

Awesome stats, BTW. I bet they took a lot of work. But they are very interesting nevertheless. ;)