Phantom's Temple

The Temple => The Heart Room => Topic started by: The Viper on December 02, 2012, 09:39:16 PM

Title: Episodes that had difficult layouts but aren't recognized for them
Post by: The Viper on December 02, 2012, 09:39:16 PM
I've been re-watching some episodes, and I've noticed that some episodes have tough layouts, but no one says anything about them. Two off the top of my head are the Lion-Slashed Jacket of Sacagawea, and the Royal Torque of Queen Boadicea.

In the Lion-Slashed Jacket, this team had to scale the central shaft, then complete the top floor of the temple. Compare this to runs like The Jeweled Scabbard of Sforza, where the team only had to complete the central shaft, or like the Applewood Amulet of Emilliano Zapato, where the team only had to clear the top floor of the temple.

In the Royal Torque of Queen Boadicea, the layout forced the team into the Scared Markers, then up in to the King's Storeroom. Compare this to other bottom central shaft runs like The Good Luck Watch, or the Electrified Key where the team only had to complete 1 Central Shaft room, and the Shrine-Forest path was open.

Feel free to post any other runs that you feel aren't recognized for their hard layouts
Title: Re: Episodes that had difficult layouts but aren't recognized for them
Post by: PurpleParrot319 on December 02, 2012, 09:48:47 PM
I was thinking about posting a topic like this. Thanks Viper for saving me the time of doing so. ;)

Lion-Slashed Jacket: It's too similar to Lost Hornpipe. If that team can do it, then the Lion-Slashed Jacket kids should've been able to do it too. However, Lauren was too slow and Mike hesitated one too many times, resulting in a loss.

Royal Torque: I truly believe this run would've been a win had Lissy moved faster. She wasted way too much time in the Crypt and struggled climbing out of the Pit. And Good Luck Watch would've been a win too if Janeen wasn't too slow and hesitant. The Jesters' Court error didn't help things either.
Title: Re: Episodes that had difficult layouts but aren't recognized for them
Post by: The Red Jaguars on December 02, 2012, 10:39:21 PM
This is how I feel about it:

Lion-Slashed Jacket - Yeah, this is definitely an overlooked layout. The team was forced up the central shaft and didn't have an option to enter the King's Storeroom from the Pit either. Its also possible that if Mike completed the Shrine, then they might've had to enter the Secret Password from the Quicksand Bog. Even though they were slow players, they still made it far taking into account their tough layout.

Queen Boadicea - Agreed, it was a lengthy layout too. But pretty much any of the season three bottom of the central shaft runs were like that. Lissy is probably the real reason they lost. She wasted too much time for her own good. But it was still a lengthy layout and this was the closest a team has come from escape from the bottom of the central shaft with a win.

Here is a couple more I like to add:

Belshazzar - I honestly don't think Katherine or Sean were bad players at all. Katherine moved fast in the temple and Sean only had enough time to get where she left off. They had really bad luck with two potential production errors. The Room of the Harmonic Convergence one was ridiculous and ate up a good chunk of their time. Like I said, they didn't seem like bad players to me.

Ivory Elephant - It was longer than most season two runs and the temple guard layout also seemed tricky to me.

Tokugawa Ieyasu - We always give Brandy and Quentin a hard time for hesitating and completing unnecessary objectives. But their layout was just as lengthy as "Hans Holbein" and "Robert the Bruce" was. They almost reached the Silk Sash despite the mistakes and long layout.

Judge Roy Bean - Yeah, Kelli screwed this up from being a win. But the Orange Iguanas were forced to complete 9 rooms to even reach the Thornwood Gavel. Compare that to "Sojourner Truth" and "Sir Gawain", and this layout was much tougher than those two.
Title: Re: Episodes that had difficult layouts but aren't recognized for them
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on December 02, 2012, 10:54:50 PM
Red Sash, not Silk Sash. ;)

I kind of disagree about "Ivory Elephant." Sure the center of the room temple runs where the players have to go counterclockwise was tough. But, it was really Monica and Brad's own fault for not taking any shortcuts. Plus, Monica wasted a lot of time on the objectives she did.
Title: Re: Episodes that had difficult layouts but aren't recognized for them
Post by: The Red Jaguars on December 02, 2012, 11:32:10 PM
Yeah, Monica and Brad both contributed to the loss. Monica wasted too much time in the Ledges and completed the Observatory in horrible fashion. Brad made a useless detour into the Ledges and didn't take the Shrine shortcut.

I also want to add "The Mystical Spellbook of the Imperial Wizard" to the list. It was another lengthy layout including making the Green Monkeys detour into the Ledges and force them into the bottom of the Pit. They made it pretty far too with that tough layout.
Title: Re: Episodes that had difficult layouts but aren't recognized for them
Post by: The Viper on June 14, 2014, 06:38:24 PM
*Sorry for bumping an old topic* A run that I've realized had a really hard layout is The Missing Eye of David. They had to go through atleast 7 rooms to get to the eye (which included the entire central shaft), but more importantly, the temple guard placement was brutal. All 3 guards were forced, and the half pendant was hidden in Medusa's Lair. No one has really been able to find where in Medusa's Lair the half pendant was, which shows that it was probably difficult to find. I feel like the bizarre half pendant placement, guard placement, and layout were set up to screw this team over. If only they hadn't realized that Emily only gave the Swamp guard a half pendant.  
:snakes2:
Title: Re: Episodes that had difficult layouts but aren't recognized for them
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on June 14, 2014, 08:23:41 PM
Yeah, I agree about Missing Eye. Both Michael and Emily were forced into the some of the hardest rooms Season 2 had to offer. Plus, that half pendant (supposedly hidden in Medusa's Lair) was very poorly hidden. Couldn't they just hide it on the Troubled Bridge actuator, ala Sacred Ring. I also think that runs like Red Sash, Golden Cup, and Mystical Spellbook were pretty hard layouts too, like mentioned above.
Title: Re: Episodes that had difficult layouts but aren't recognized for them
Post by: The Red Jaguars on June 16, 2014, 02:57:03 PM
Yeah, I agree about Missing Eye. Both Michael and Emily were forced into the some of the hardest rooms Season 2 had to offer. Plus, that half pendant (supposedly hidden in Medusa's Lair) was very poorly hidden. Couldn't they just hide it on the Troubled Bridge actuator, ala Sacred Ring. I also think that runs like Red Sash, Golden Cup, and Mystical Spellbook were pretty hard layouts too, like mentioned above.

Yeah, Missing Eye's layout was unfair for the temple guard placement and half-pendant placement. There was no way for Michael and Emily to avoid all three guards AND the half-pendant no where in sight. Even I didn't see the half-pendant in Medusa's Lair during the Missing Eye run.

Going back to this topic, these are the layouts I don't see any team winning in:

- Golden Cup
- Dead Man's Hand
- Discarded Seal
- Missing Portrait
- Robert the Bruce
- Dried Apple Half

All of these layouts were impossible because of production errors or the teams had to enter a lot of rooms. I don't see even the best players having a chance with these layouts.

Some layouts like Belle Boyd and Red Sash I can see as being winnable though. Although in those runs, we would have to have a team like Gator and Jessica be partners and be flawless in the temple. Red Sash was definitely winnable considering Brandy and Quentin came close to grabbing it despite taking longer paths and hesitating.  ;)
Title: Re: Episodes that had difficult layouts but aren't recognized for them
Post by: GreenMonkeys#1 on June 16, 2014, 09:44:33 PM
What about Sacred Ring?

Even though the first guard is avoidable, there is still an unknown answer to what was the path to the Dark Forest. It was either Crypt/Bridge/Observatory/Storeroom/Medusa/Laser Light/Swamp/Forest or other possibilities involving the Shrine. Also, it is never shown if the Storeroom/Shrine door did/did not open. If the Shrine door did open then ignore everything I said because there would be a possibility of a solo run. 

Another option that is good is the Medal of Sir Edmund Hillary. The run had to be one of the worst paths ever. Both entrances used, not good Temple Guard placement, and the diversion to the Well once the Silver Monkey was completed. Give some credit to Tara after she came close with this. She could've won with this unusual layout if she didn't pull a Ron.
Title: Re: Episodes that had difficult layouts but aren't recognized for them
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on June 16, 2014, 09:45:27 PM
Sacred Ring maybe. Sir Edmund Hilary yes. Tara and Danny were forced to use the elevator, which always ate up a lot of time.

Here's another one: Mush Pot Hat. It had an identical layout to Sir Edmund Hilary. Also having to use an elevator here.
Title: Re: Episodes that had difficult layouts but aren't recognized for them
Post by: GreenMonkeys#1 on June 16, 2014, 10:05:07 PM
Empress Theodora could count here as well, since Ashley & Josh had to go loop all the way around from the Dark Forest just to get to the Robe. Not to mention the guards were also there and the slow ass elevator.

Golden Goblet had a pretty fucked up path as well, it was just up down up down throughout the run. 

Even though the runners sucked like hell, the two room detour in Bifocal Monocle was pure evil. However, Veronica deserved it. :roll: 

Aurangzeb is highly forgettable and also had an unusual layout. Chamber to the Storeroom and the Shrine/Password door locked. Not going to forgive them for not finding the easy half pendant.
Title: Re: Episodes that had difficult layouts but aren't recognized for them
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on June 16, 2014, 10:08:33 PM
I don't know about Bifocal Monocle. For all we know, it could've been a solo victory if Veronica never entered the Room of the Ancient Warriors or King's Storeroom. She totally brought that on herself. It reminded me a lot like Poseidon, where it could've been a solo victory, but Kimberly blew it. So that whole "detour" was completely avoidable.
Title: Re: Episodes that had difficult layouts but aren't recognized for them
Post by: The Red Jaguars on June 16, 2014, 10:21:18 PM
I definitely agree about Sir Edmund Hillary having a difficult path. People always complain about Tara going down the central shaft, but they don't realize that the Silver Snakes had a long path. And she also had to take the slow ass Well bucket too. I know she pulled a Ron when she exited, but she might've not won anyways with little time she had. And she still finished in the same place as Ron despite having a half minute left than him.

I disagree about Empress Theodora's layout. Ashley and Joshua moved so slow in the temple. The bottom floor of Season 2 was very easy to complete, but Ashley moved as slow as Kerry on the bottom floor. And Josh was not much faster easier. And despite being slow, Josh and Ashley almost reached the Purple Robe. A team like Atocha or Emiliano Zapata would win this layout.

I agree about Attila the Hun though. All of the floor switching took too much time from the team. I know Rachelle moved slow, but I don't think they would've had much success if Taylor went in first. And there is the possibility that the last guard was in the Secret Password. Definitely an unfair layout.

I sort of agree with Bifocal Monocle, only because it is the only Season 3 runs with dead ends. However, I don't feel sorry for Veronica and Thomas one bit. The way they performed in the temple was Golden Cricket Cage bad and they probably wouldn't even win with a Roland layout. :roll:

And I agree with Lost Taj Mahal Turban too. The layout was almost identical to Imperial Wizard, except all three guards were forced. I am not really bothered by the triple capture though because the team would've reached the Turban at best.
Title: Re: Episodes that had difficult layouts but aren't recognized for them
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on June 16, 2014, 10:23:29 PM
Mush Pot Hat (like mentioned above) had an identical layout to Sir Edmund Hilary. Does anyone think that was a tough layout as well?
Title: Re: Episodes that had difficult layouts but aren't recognized for them
Post by: The Viper on June 16, 2014, 10:26:38 PM
I think that Bifocal Monocle's layout was really dickish. It basically punished the team for using logic (in this case, moving toward the artifact rather than away from it) and was a really harsh layout to give a Season 3 team.

I also think that Edmund Hillary was harder then Mush Pot because the Observatorybwas locked from the Troubled bridge and becausw it required atleast 3 floor switches.
Title: Re: Episodes that had difficult layouts but aren't recognized for them
Post by: The Red Jaguars on June 16, 2014, 10:28:14 PM
Yeah, Johnny Appleseed had a difficult layout too. Angela and Chris didn't do much wrong in the temple, and they had to take the slow Mine Shaft elevator just like Tara had to take the Well bucket. But I think Johnny Appleseed had a chance of being a solo victory though. Assuming the Ledges didn't detour into the Crypt for Chris. Other than that, there was not much that this team could've done better to win.

I want to add Kamehameha to the list too. The shortest route to the artifact required Robbie and Tina to enter 9 rooms. And that is assuming a Season 1 contestant knows not to take a direct path either. This is the type of layout where Robbie and Tina would've needed two Pendants to actually win. And they handled it very well despite entering every room. But the triple capture is entirely their fault.
Title: Re: Episodes that had difficult layouts but aren't recognized for them
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on June 16, 2014, 10:30:02 PM
@ Bifocal Monocle: It may have been a strange layout, but it was Veronica's own fault for taking all those detours. I think if anything, the producers were being a little generous. It was like they giving them a solo win, but both Veronica and Thomas blew it.

And here's another potential hard layout: Lucky Pig. We all know Kristen was both too slow and clueless, but both the temple guard placement and layout was brutal. She didn't even have any access to shortcuts, like most teams do. It doesn't detract from what a horrible run it was, but that layout was bordering on impossible too.
Title: Re: Episodes that had difficult layouts but aren't recognized for them
Post by: The Red Jaguars on June 16, 2014, 10:34:00 PM
I would definitely add Lucky Pig to the list. Kristen and Scott were literally required to enter every room of the temple enroute to the artifact (except the Heart Room). But I definitely think this run was winnable though. As bad as Kristen was, she still managed to make it one room away. If the team started in the Cave of Sighs and followed Kristen's path, then it would've been a solo victory. Of course, Kristen had no business inside the temple. -_-
Title: Re: Episodes that had difficult layouts but aren't recognized for them
Post by: The Red Jaguars on June 16, 2014, 10:38:27 PM
Here is a comprehensive list of the toughest layouts on the show. These are the layouts where the team would need some special strategy or a set of really good players in order to win in the temple. This list is not in any order:

- Golden Cup
- Golden Ship
- Dead Man's Hand
- Lucky Pig
- Lost Fountain of Youth
- Kamehameha
- Leonardo Da Vinci
- Stone Marker
- Sir Edmund Hillary
- Golden Stallion
- Attila the Hun
- Missing Eye
- Lion-Slashed Jacket
- Thornwood Gavel
- Marble Armrest
- Henry Hudson
- Imperial Wizard
- Mummified Hand
- Red Sash
- Queen Boadicea
- Pirate Captain (Jessica and Jarrid won though!)
- Robert the Bruce
- Missing Portrait
- Discarded Seal
- Taj Mahal Turban
- William Tell
- Belle Boyd
Title: Re: Episodes that had difficult layouts but aren't recognized for them
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on June 16, 2014, 10:40:11 PM
I was gonna bring up Golden Spider Web next. Just like Lucky Pig, Christine and Jeremy didn't get any access to either shortcut in the Shrine. And they had to traverse counterclockwise through the temple to get it. Same with Hans Holbein. Of course, neither team in either of these runs were fast, but both layouts were pretty impossible.