Phantom's Temple

The Temple => The Heart Room => Topic started by: PurpleParrot319 on June 12, 2012, 08:44:31 PM

Title: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: PurpleParrot319 on June 12, 2012, 08:44:31 PM
Got a Legends question for everyone. In the temple run for "The Crown of Queen Nzinga", the Red Jaguars tried taking the Benzibab path to the artifact in the upper left room (in this case, the Lightning Ball Room), but they had their run ended in the Dark Forest thanks to a temple spirit. The player that got caught, Renee, didn't attempt to bust through the wall to go to the Mine Shaft.

So the question is this. Do you guys think the wall connecting the Dark Forest and the Mine Shaft would've broken down had Renee tried it? I'm gonna be honest with you. I don't think it would've broken down. Why do you think the camera-right tree had a temple spirit in it? Obviously this tree had the key in it. If the wall was meant to be broken down, then the production crew most likely would've put the temple spirit in the camera-left tree, just like in "The Silver Horseshoe of Butch Cassidy". So with that being said, I truly believe that this Red Jaguars team would've been forced up into the Shrine of the Silver Monkey to get to the Crown. Heck, I actually think they would've been FORCED to enter the Mine Shaft from the Shrine. This would've been "The Imperial Purple Robe of Empress Theodora" all over again, except a slightly different order of rooms to enter: Forest, Shrine, Shaft, then Lightning.

What is everyone's take on this situation? It would've been interesting to see, but we never got to see it because you know, Renee.... :roll:
Title: Re: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: Purple Parrots Fan on June 12, 2012, 08:51:40 PM
Yeah, I don't think the wall would have broken down either. The team would have been forced into the Shrine, and THEN the Lightning Ball Room. I don't think the production crew would force the contestants to zig zag just to get to the Crown. Either way, there was no excuse for this run to end in such a quick time. Renee should have been able to spot that half pendant.
Title: Re: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: PurpleParrot319 on June 12, 2012, 08:55:37 PM
I agree about the half pendant. Even the sorry excuse for a Purple Parrot Claude was able to find his half pendant. That's sad.

The zig-zag path I had in mind would've been interesting, but you may be right. The production crew might not have been that mean to try it, but then again, anything was possible when it came to layouts.
Title: Re: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: The Red Jaguars on June 13, 2012, 01:02:01 AM
If the wall had broken down, then I am pretty sure that the team could've just got into the Mine Shaft elevator and rode it up to the Lightning Room. It pretty much had a similar layout to "Butch Cassidy", except Paula entered from the Heart Room rather from the bottom of the central shaft. But in that run, the Dark Forest guard was blocking the breakable wall. Same with "The Secret Map of the Bandit Queen", where the temple guard was blocking the breakable wall.

So why put the guard in the tree away from the wall? Its hard to tell if the wall was breakable or not, but I could see the situation where the wall was breakable though. But no excuse for this team losing. They had an easy layout either way and Renee should have found that half-pendant that Kirk even shouted at her after she passed it. It was just an all around inattentive team that pissed away an easy layout.

As for the zigzag path, I thought of this idea before too. It could've made an interesting path like "The Sacred Ring of Sultan Suleiman", but I don't see it happening.

Speaking of "Sultan Suleiman", does anyone think that the Purple Parrots should've entered the Shrine from the Storeroom?
Title: Re: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: TempleFan322 on July 18, 2012, 05:22:38 PM
The Guard was in the stage right tree. When the wall is breakable, the Guard would be in the stage left tree.

The Wall to the Mineshaft would not break in this episode.
Title: Re: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: The Red Jaguars on July 18, 2012, 10:28:36 PM
I don't think the temple spirit being in the stage right tree always meant that the wall was locked. I mean we know that it worked in that case for "The Imperial Purple Robe of Empress Theodora" because the wall was locked AND the temple guard was in the stage right tree.

However, there are a handful of episodes where the stage right tree was avoidable due to the wall breaking down. In "The Jeweled Necklace of Montezuma", I am pretty sure Kelly encounters a guard in the stage right tree. While she didn't plow through the wall in that episode, I am sure it could've been broken down.

The stage right tree also captured Casey from "The Snow Cone of Mt. Kilimanjaro" too and since the Shrine was locked in that run, I am pretty sure the team would've had to plow through the wall in that run too. Unfortunately, the team was too stupid to make any more progress from the Dark Forest.

Back to "Queen Nzinga" though. It wouldn't be hard to believe that the wall couldn't have been broken down, that would've just made the run too simple. I mean look at the paths that teams like "The Silk Sash of Mulan" and "The Mush Pot Hat of Johnny Appleseed" had to take through the temple. Either way, Renee should've found that obvious half-pendant and this run wouldn't have ended the way it did.
Title: Re: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on September 02, 2012, 11:50:59 PM
In "The Metal Beard of the Egyptian Queen", the camera-right tree held the temple spirit, taking TJ out of the temple. However, when Randy got to the room, there wasn't a key in either tree, forcing her to burst through the (breakable) wall to the Quicksand Bog. So a temple spirit in the camera-right tree does not mandate that the wall is locked.
Title: Re: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: The Red Jaguars on September 03, 2012, 12:49:12 AM
It happened also with Casey in "The Snow Cone of Mt. Kilimanjaro" where the stage right tree contained the temple guard. I am pretty sure the wall was breakable in that run too, but I am not watching that abomination again to determine if that is true or not.  :oops:

But back to "Queen Nzinga". I guess it shouldn't be too hard to believe that the wall was breakable in that run. I mean "Billy the Kid" featured an almost identical layout where Tony was allowed to get to the Shrine from the Mine Shaft. So maybe Renee was able to get to the Lightning Room from the Mine Shaft? Either way, it was her own stupid fault that this run ended the way it did. Just find the half-pendant that is plain in sight and they would've won!  :roll:
Title: Re: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on September 03, 2012, 11:34:15 AM
Another thing to note about this temple run, is that it may not have even been necessary to go into the Swamp and Dark Forest in the first place. Right after Ben revealed the white laser in the Laser Light Room, it seems as though the door to Medusa's Lair opened. Look at the lighting on the uppermost rung of the ladder in the Laser Light Room between 2:11 and 2:08 on the temple run clock. There is a definite lighting shift, and the motion of the light is left-to-right, just as that door is supposed to open. (This also happens in The Golden Goblet of Attila the Hun, where they descended from Medusa's Lair to the Laser Light Room. At 1:47-:42, before the frontrunner even begins climbing down to the Laser Light Room, the same lighting transition can be seen on the uppermost rung of the ladder.)











Could this mean that there was another path leading from the Laser Light Room to Medusa's Lair and across the upper floor, thereby completely negating the last two temple guards? If so, then this could have been a solo victory, and Renee wouldn't have even had to enter the temple and cause... what happened...
Title: Re: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: The Ancient Warrior on September 03, 2012, 05:59:53 PM
There could've been a clear path from there, but I think what's more likely is if Medusa's Lair were a dead end.  Temple configurations were almost never freeform enough to give players two very divergent paths to choose from, but it's still possible, just unlikely.

The configuration including the Dark Forest/Mine Shaft passage being open didn't seem too short to me.  The producers had created even easier setups, so the only reason I'd guess that the wall wouldn't break down is because of the Dark Forest having a Temple Spirit at all when it seems like they shouldn't need to unlock any doors.  If Renee just had to bust through the wall, why not just put the third guard in the Mine Shaft?

For comparison, "The Silver Horseshoe of Butch Cassidy" did have a Temple Spirit but the wall still broke down, but I'm guessing that was just an early episode quirk, because the Temple Spirit went after Paula even though she was just trying to go through the wall.  It's not like later episodes where the Temple Spirit becomes more of a calculated risk than something inevitable.

My only argument against that is maybe setting up the Temple Spirit to catch a player who wasn't paying attention to the Dark Forest's multiple objectives.  Even in Season 3, an occasional player (Jared from "The Mystical Spellbook of the Imperial Wizard") still tried to look for the key when all they had to do was bust through the wall.
Title: Re: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: The Red Jaguars on September 05, 2012, 01:03:45 AM
There could've been a clear path from there, but I think what's more likely is if Medusa's Lair were a dead end.  Temple configurations were almost never freeform enough to give players two very divergent paths to choose from, but it's still possible, just unlikely.

The configuration including the Dark Forest/Mine Shaft passage being open didn't seem too short to me.  The producers had created even easier setups, so the only reason I'd guess that the wall wouldn't break down is because of the Dark Forest having a Temple Spirit at all when it seems like they shouldn't need to unlock any doors.  If Renee just had to bust through the wall, why not just put the third guard in the Mine Shaft?

One thing to note about most season two half-pendant temple runs were that the producers almost always banked on the team with the half-pendant. I mean "The Two-Cornered Hat of Napoleon" team run featured an almost identical temple guard layout during that run. Except in that run, one of the guards were avoidable in the Crypt. So taking this into account, I don't think Medusa's Lair was an alternate route either. Probably a useless detour or deadend like you mentioned.

But yeah, having the temple guard in the Mine Shaft would've made a more interesting layout. But the wall being breakable seems more likely now as it was rare for a team to be forced to encounter all three guards. So its possible that the Temple Spirit would've been an optional encounter so Renee might've been better off busting through the wall after all. Or found that obvious half-pendant too.
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For comparison, "The Silver Horseshoe of Butch Cassidy" did have a Temple Spirit but the wall still broke down, but I'm guessing that was just an early episode quirk, because the Temple Spirit went after Paula even though she was just trying to go through the wall.  It's not like later episodes where the Temple Spirit becomes more of a calculated risk than something inevitable.

The Temple Spirit in "The Jeweled Necklace of Montezuma" also guarded the breakable wall when Kelly encountered it in her temple run. I am pretty sure it was like that for Joel in his temple run too, but it was only partial and not covering the wall entirely like it did for Paula and Kelly. But I guess they did to try and force the team to encounter a temple guard. I mean technically Paula shouldn't have encountered any temple guards at all since she wasn't trying to reach in the tree.
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My only argument against that is maybe setting up the Temple Spirit to catch a player who wasn't paying attention to the Dark Forest's multiple objectives.  Even in Season 3, an occasional player (Jared from "The Mystical Spellbook of the Imperial Wizard") still tried to look for the key when all they had to do was bust through the wall.

I blame Kirk for Jared wasting his time in that room. He could've simply plowed through the wall, but Kirk kept telling him to look into the trees. Although I think Katie mentioned in her interview that Jared was not paying attention during the temple rundown. So that could've been a reason why he wasted time trying the Trees also.
Title: Re: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on December 26, 2012, 05:59:12 PM
*Bump*

This discussion seems to have burnt out before a conclusion was reached, so I'd like to revive it and hopefully come to a consensus about the stone wall in the Dark Forest for the Nzinga run. Some people believe that the wall was not breakable because the temple spirit was in the otherwise avoidable camera-right tree. Other people believe that the wall was breakable because the path resembled several other runs where the wall was breakable.

I believe that the wall was breakable. To start, there were other runs that featured both a temple spirit in that tree and a breakable wall, such as "Metal Beard of the Egyptian Queen." Since that placement has happened in other episodes, it would not be out of the question for that placement to have happened again. The only times we are certain of where the wall did not break down were in the "Keys to the Alhambra" and "Imperial Purple Robe of Empress Theodora," both of which featured artifacts in the Mineshaft space, not the Lightning Room space. While it is impossible to say that only episodes with artifacts in the bottom corner had stiff walls, my guess is that the path and temple guard placement best lent itself to sending this team into the Mineshaft and up to the Lightning Room, similarly to the "Silver Horseshoe of Butch Cassidy."

I would also like to reiterate TRJ's point that in nearly every episode, at least one guard was avoidable during the run. If the path along the bottom floor was the only viable path (as opposed to a path across the upper floor via the opened door leading up to Medusa's Lair from the Laser Light Room that I pointed out in a prior post), then the only potentially avoidable guard would have been the one in the Dark Forest. However, if the door to Medusa's Lair did send the team across the top floor, then both the Swamp and Dark Forest guards would have been avoidable, and it could have been a solo win so Renee would not have had to have entered the temple in the first place. However, let's assume that the team needed to take the path along the bottom floor like they did. Under these conditions, I believe the wall was breakable so that the third guard would be potentially avoidable.
Title: Re: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: The Viper on January 04, 2013, 07:26:00 PM
I think that the wall was breakable. During the temple rundown, the Mine Shaft elevator is up in the Lightning Ball Room. This means they would've had to zig-zag to get the Crown had the wall been breakable and they chose/were forced to go through it. The Shrine-Forest passage might have been inactive, and the temple spirit might have been unnecessary to encounter due to this.
Title: Re: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 04, 2013, 08:47:58 PM
I think that the wall was breakable. During the temple rundown, the Mine Shaft elevator is up in the Lightning Ball Room. This means they would've had to zig-zag to get the Crown had the wall been breakable and they chose/were forced to go through it. The Shrine-Forest passage might have been inactive, and the temple spirit might have been unnecessary to encounter due to this.

How are you able to tell that the elevator was in the Lightning Ball Room rather than in the Mineshaft?
Title: Re: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: The Viper on January 04, 2013, 10:47:34 PM


 The triangle ropes are those of the elevator. (Sorry from my crappy cropping :P)
Title: Re: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 04, 2013, 11:23:11 PM
But the same rope positioning was seen in the "Missing Weather Maps of Charles Lindbergh" run, and Kim could not access the elevator from the upper floor in that run...
Title: Re: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: Red Jaguars Fan on January 04, 2013, 11:32:47 PM
Then again, since Kim wasn't bright at all during the run......
Title: Re: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 04, 2013, 11:34:53 PM
When Kim tried to go into the elevator, Kirk even said something to the effect of, "You can't go down that way. You're gonna have to go back."
Title: Re: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: The Viper on January 04, 2013, 11:36:55 PM
But it makes no sense for the Room of the Secret Password to open if Kirk was just gonna tell them to not go in the room.
Title: Re: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 04, 2013, 11:46:36 PM
I know it doesn't make sense, but that is how the run played out. And there were other times when contestants backtracked into that room without access to the elevator. In some runs such as "Belly Button of Buddha" and "Milk Bucket of Freydis," it did not affect the outcomes because time was not not an issue. And there were other runs like "Cracked Crown of the Spanish King," where the contestant backtracked into the corner room and did not achieve victory. So even though in those runs the teams were not meant to go back down, entering the detour ate up time from the clock. This seems to have been the case in "Missing Weather Maps."
Title: Re: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: PurpleParrot319 on January 05, 2013, 01:16:30 AM
PP4L, I can confirm Viper's point with the elevator. I took pictures from both rundowns for the following two temple runs.

This pic is from The Crown of Queen Nzinga. Notice no triangle-shaped rope pattern.




This next pic is from The Leopard-Skin Cloak of Annie Oakley. In this run, Chandra rode the elevator UP from the Mine Shaft to the Room of the Secret Password. This time, there IS a triangle-shaped pattern with the ropes (plus a knot at the top), indicating the elevator was down in the Mine Shaft for this run but not for Queen Nzinga's run.




With this discovery, I don't think it was possible to ride the elevator up in the Queen Nzinga run. I'm sticking with my gut feeling that the wall was NOT breakable in this run, unless the producers wanted the Red Jaguars to take the diagonal path from the Mine Shaft to the Shrine of the Silver Monkey, but even I don't think they would do that. That being said, I think the team was meant to enter the Shrine from the Dark Forest with the Mine Shaft wall being unbreakable. The team would then grab the Crown after assembling the Silver Monkey. That's my take.
Title: Re: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 05, 2013, 10:17:33 AM
PP319: I understand the elevator situation and agree with you about the elevator placements for the runs you mentioned. Regardless of whether the wall was breakable during the Nzinga run, the team would have been forced into the Shrine and across to the Lightning Ball Room since the elevator was not accessible in the Mineshaft.

I am only unsure about why, then, Kim could not take the elevator during the "Weather Maps" run since the triangularly-knotted end of the ropes was in the Room of the Secret Password, and she was trying to head down from there.




Photo courtesy video posted on youtube.com by ChargerTheWolf.
Title: Re: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: PurpleParrot319 on January 05, 2013, 10:40:35 AM
Yeah, the elevator is up in that run as well. I think I know why Kim didn't ride it. Kirk said she couldn't go down that way and she was stupid enough (surprise!) to listen to him. She COULD have taken the elevator since it was up the whole time, but she listened to Kirk instead. He was a little too late telling her that though since she had already passed up the Dark Forest.

It doesn't matter anyway. Kim was a lost cause and is the main reason why I absolutely despise this run.
Title: Re: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: The Red Jaguars on January 05, 2013, 11:35:32 PM
The producers probably kept the elevator up in the "Charles Lindbergh" run just in case the player was stupid enough to actually go into that room and actually use it when an alternate route was open. The elevator was pretty much useless in that run, but Kim was almost stupid enough to actually ride it. It was like in the "Golden Pepperoni" run where the elevator was up for Aqila and she jumped in it despite the fact it didn't due her any good.

But back to the "Queen Nzinga" run. It would've been interesting how the elevator situation would've worked for Renee. If the Mine Shaft wall was actually breakable for her, then why not just place the Temple Spirit in the tree blocking the wall? They did this in a lot of other runs where they wanted to force a temple guard encounter.
Title: Re: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: PurpleParrot4Life on January 06, 2013, 11:37:54 AM
Very good point, TRJ, about the "Golden Pepperoni" run.

As far as the layout goes for "Queen Nzinga," I think that they placed the guard in the stage left tree so that (if the wall was breakable), there would be at least one avoidable guard. Every run, save two, had at least one guard that was avoidable. There were several times that the temple spirit was housed in the camera-right tree, yet the wall was breakable. In those runs, that temple spirit was the avoidable guard (or one of two avoidable guards, in some cases).
Title: Re: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: GreenMonkeys#1 on January 07, 2013, 05:26:37 PM
What would happen if the wall was broken down but the Golden Door to the Shrine was LOCKED? Then that would be an evil layout that would mean Forest-Shaft-Shrine-Lightning en route to the Crown.
Title: Re: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: The Viper on February 16, 2019, 08:17:16 PM
This run has been on my mind lately and I think I have come to a reasonable conclusion about the temple guard placement and the wall being breakable. I believe that the wall would have been breakable AND the passage to the shrine would have opened. The outcome of this run was likely based on two factors that occur around the same point in the run. The first is whether the Renee grabs the half-pendant or not. The second is if she searches for the Dark Forest key or breaks through the wall.


The only thing I could go either way about is if the Shrine/Forest passage would open or not. I think it would open to reward the player for finding the half-pendant by letting them avoid the Mine Shaft and the confusion that would likely ensue when they see that there's no elevator. However, I could also see it being locked to force the 'no elevator in the Mine Shaft' scenario because it was never done before and would have made for a good TV.

All that being said, what the hell was up with the Medusa's Lair door opening?
Title: Re: The Crown of Queen Nzinga temple run question
Post by: TempleFan322 on February 20, 2019, 12:18:41 PM
Taking a guess, if you watch "The Imperial Purple Robe" run, the guard was in the right hand tree, the same one in this run. As the wall didn't break in that run, I think it wouldn't break in this run.